John C Posted October 27, 2023 Report Posted October 27, 2023 On Shopgoodwill.com and currently at 403 dollars. My vote is fake - but at least it is stamped. https://shopgoodwill.com/item/181823770 John C. Quote
lonely panet Posted October 27, 2023 Report Posted October 27, 2023 all island swords are fake in my opinion 5 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 27, 2023 Report Posted October 27, 2023 It's one of those made in China during the war, unless the faker industry has decided to fake the Emergency stamp. I supose that could happen, but I can't see why they would, nor could I see them sophisticated enough to learn about the stamp and then fake it. It is poorly struck, but seems accurate. Here's how it should look But I've seen poor ones too 1 Quote
Mark S. Posted October 27, 2023 Report Posted October 27, 2023 That transition from habaki to blade makes me… 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 27, 2023 Report Posted October 27, 2023 Yes, these are always shocking to our refined sensibilities! Ha! One of these days, someone will come up with some firm documentation/evidence about them. We know that in the last year of the war, Allied bombing had decimated mainland Japan's sword industry. They had attempted to move heavy machinery over to occupied territory (I want to say Jensen Arsenal, working from memory) but never got full production re-established. Local producers, therefore were the only source for many overseas forces. A 1944 regulation change drastically reduced mil-spec requirements, and in the words of the world famous Nick Komiya, the reg said "If it shoots or stabs, make it." 1 Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 27, 2023 Report Posted October 27, 2023 This is a military sword produced in China during the later stages of World War II, intended for use by puppet government officials. The character "應" mark should correspond to 應需(as needed)rather than 應急(emergency). Some of these swords were given as gifts to U.S. deployed military staff and observers.. 4 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 Here is our dedicated thread to this topic: @BANGBANGSAN @Kiipu I've been trying to find the original source for calling this stamp "Emergency". I thought it was Fuller, but couldn't find it. Same for Dawson. It's not cited in the thread above either. Anyone know the origins of the term? Next question Trystan - from a non-Japanese speaker, I see the kanji in both "As Needed" and "Emergency" that you posted above. Why would you chose one over the other? Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 32 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said: Here is our dedicated thread to this topic: @BANGBANGSAN Next question Trystan - from a non-Japanese speaker, I see the kanji in both "As Needed" and "Emergency" that you posted above. Why would you chose one over the other? Japanese swords often have inscriptions like 應XXX需" or 應需XXX (As the needs of/"as required by someone) as part of their sword inscriptions. 應小林氏需-As the needs of the Kobayashi family 應鈴木照雲師需- As the request of Master Suzuki Shouun 應需 畑俊六閣下- As required by His Excellency Shunroku Hata (Field Marshal) 應需 畑俊六閣下- As required by His Excellency Shunroku Hata (Field Marshal) 4 1 Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 39 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said: I've been trying to find the original source for calling this stamp "Emergency". I thought it was Fuller, but couldn't find it. Same for Dawson. It's not cited in the thread above either. Anyone know the origins of the term? It should be "Edokko (江戶子)" who proposed it in this thread. The Kanji 應 is an older style of the Kanji 応, which is most likely a shortened form of 応急 meaning "emergency," similar to those emergency T-99 rifles marked with 応. https://www.gunboard...356639/#post-2950116 2 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 3 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said: It should be "Edokko (江戶子)" who proposed it in this thread Ok, so we have no official source for the stamp then. I see what you're saying about the "as required/requested" use of the kanji. My On-the-other-hand thought is that I don't see why the kanji couldn't be used for both expressions. In a mei, it is "as required" but on the blade in a circle, it's 'emergency'. NA, and HO, and KO, etc are kanji that mean something in a sentence, but as inspector stamps they mean something else. I'm no one to say either way, but logically speaking, the "emergency" term makes more sense to me in a circle on a blade. Maybe some day we'll uncover a regulation or document. Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 16 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said: Ok, so we have no official source for the stamp then. I see what you're saying about the "as required/requested" use of the kanji. My On-the-other-hand thought is that I don't see why the kanji couldn't be used for both expressions. In a mei, it is "as required" but on the blade in a circle, it's 'emergency'. NA, and HO, and KO, etc are kanji that mean something in a sentence, but as inspector stamps they mean something else. I'm no one to say either way, but logically speaking, the "emergency" term makes more sense to me in a circle on a blade. Maybe some day we'll uncover a regulation or document. As per my observations, most of these Chinese-made Gunto swords didn't bear 應 marks, especially in the case of the lowest quality, simplified versions that have an 'emergency' appearance. 1 Quote
vajo Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 That sword is one of these handmade wartime "fake" swords from mainland china. I surely doubt that these are imitations of typ98 swords. They are so crude and ugly they must be authentic dressed the chinese puppet troops in service of Japan. We could not call all fake what is shaped like a Japanese sword that didn't come from Japan. Sometimes it is different. If someone buys it thinking its genuine Japanese its not my problem. There are books or 5 Minutes in Google to find the truth. But maybe someone will collect these "trash" swords? I dunno. Is this a fake Volkswagen? No it's Volkswagen made in Brasil 1970 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said: most of these Chinese-made Gunto swords didn't bear 應 marks, Which certainly adds to the mystery. Who was using that stamp, and why? 15 minutes ago, vajo said: We could not call all fake what is shaped like a Japanese sword that didn't come from Japan. Sometimes it is different. Exactly. I love the VW example! Ha! 1 Quote
vajo Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 If someone shows me a Longquan Sword Catalogue or something else with exactly that kind of swords after 1945 i will move from my opinion. Btw. Typ95 NCO swords where sold 20 years ago how much? 80 Dollars or 200 Dollar? And now 1.000 Dollar. Jesus, if someone told me buy NCO swords they will be an investment in some years Quote
vajo Posted October 28, 2023 Report Posted October 28, 2023 On 10/27/2023 at 3:37 PM, Bruce Pennington said: ...the faker industry has decided to fake the Emergency stamp. The faker fakes fake. People are stupid but this would be really strange. 1 Quote
John C Posted October 28, 2023 Author Report Posted October 28, 2023 45 minutes ago, vajo said: If someone buys it thinking its genuine Japanese its not my problem. ...someone is going to. It's now up to 451 dollars! John C. 1 Quote
John C Posted October 30, 2023 Author Report Posted October 30, 2023 Ended up selling for 903 dollars. John C. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 30, 2023 Report Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, John C said: 903 dollars. Dang! There's full-on Japanese officer swords that sell for less! However, the emergency swords have their own place in the war's history, so they deserve a place in a collection here and there. Quote
John C Posted November 11, 2023 Author Report Posted November 11, 2023 Apparently 900 bucks was too rich for someone. It's back on the auction block. Currently at 100 bucks. https://shopgoodwill.com/item/183415371 John C. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted November 11, 2023 Report Posted November 11, 2023 Can someone back out a sale after the hammer? Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 11, 2023 Report Posted November 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said: Can someone back out a sale after the hammer? In theory no, but it depends partly on the country, and many auction houses have ways and means pressure valves. 1 Quote
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