Col Nakagawa, Peleliu Inscription?

[Bruce Pennington]

Guys,

This is on a Mantetsu blade and the Japanese auction site says the inscription is:

 

"Kunio Nakagawa Colonel Carrying A Sword Showa Tsurami Spring"

 

and claims it was carried by Col Nakagawa on Peleliu.

 

Thoughts, corrections, geimei?

[lonely panet]

Well considering the island of

 

Peleliu was so heavily pounded during the battle. I can only assume that due to tropical heat most bodies would have been dozed into mass graves, let alone all war goodies taken by US serviceman back to the USA, I'm amazed it's in Japan and in such good condition.

 

Not buying it Boss

[SteveM]

The inscription is 

 

中川州男大佐佩刀

Carried by Colonel Nakagawa Kunio

 

昭和辛巳春

Showa Kanotomi (1941), Spring

 

興亜一心

Kōa isshin

 

満鐡作之

Made with Mantetsu steel

[lonely panet]

Oh I forgot to add. Suguha ????

 

Looks like a seki style showato hamon.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Komonjo.

[Bruce Pennington]

Komonjo.

Thanks to all for your thoughts. You have a depth of knowledge on nihonto that I will never know.

 

John,

Is his name in the action text as seller, or are you saying that this is his style of product?

 

I'll have to go back and check if the other wavy hamon blade was a Komonjo sale. I had a brief chat online with him. He says he sells on consignment from sellers in Japan. I'm beginning to suspect that a particular seller in Japan is becoming a Mantetsu geimei professional. I will find out about the previous blade.

 

Update: The previous '41 Wavy also came from Buyee.jp auction site, so Komonjo is not the seller, though, the same guy in Japan very well may be. I don't see a seller name on that site for blade autions.

[Peter Bleed]

Long before I got to the end this thread, this "sword" struck me as modern stuff. Who would be fooled by such obviously new stuff? I assume that it is Chinese. That is sure how it "looks". I also have hard time believing that it could be made in Japan. Maybe it could be signed there, but there are laws about things like this in Japan.

 

Peter

[lonely panet]

I think its a oil showato, that's got a new thick hadori. ANNND

 

by the way the nakago tapers down at after the mune stamps, I would say it was either mumei or had a facelift for new mei.

 

but either way made to deceive and fool. 

 

burn, bin and banish to MORDOR from wheres its made

[Bruce Pennington]

The file marks aren’t Mantetsu standard either.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Thanks to all for your thoughts. You have a depth of knowledge on nihonto that I will never know.

 

John,

Is his name in the action text as seller, or are you saying that this is his style of product?

 

I'll have to go back and check if the other wavy hamon blade was a Komonjo sale. I had a brief chat online with him. He says he sells on consignment from sellers in Japan. I'm beginning to suspect that a particular seller in Japan is becoming a Mantetsu geimei professional. I will find out about the previous blade.

 

Update: The previous '41 Wavy also came from Buyee.jp auction site, so Komonjo is not the seller, though, the same guy in Japan very well may be. I don't see a seller name on that site for blade autions.

It's the same source as Komonjo gets some of his from. Otherwise decent looking blades with fresh looking Mei & spurious inscriptions usually denoting it was carried by some famous officer or other such suspect yarn.

[Ed]

Was this on EBay?

 

It was on YHJP: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w307428001

[Bruce Pennington]

Was this on EBay?

 

Ed, My post came from a Buyee.jp action site, but it's post is a Yahoo auction, that seems to be the same: https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w307428001. I don't know what "Buyee" is, but there are USA sites that gather sales from around the globe. Mabye that explains it.

 

Hamfish, I checked all my '41s and agree - their nakago remain pretty uniform in width, without taper or much taper. Also, the Mantetsu nakago mune began as flat, like other blades, but in '40 they began rounding them, not all but a mix. By '41, all Mantetsu mune were rounded, EXCEPT those specifically made for Rinji (type 3) mounts, which were flat. Both these wavy blades are '41s and are flat, but in Type 98 mounts. That would lean toward fakery, but not proof alone, as a custom blade could be made any way the smith desired obviously.

 

On the other hand, the "skin" of this blades does have the look of a polished Mantetsu. When I had mine polished, the polisher called the look "sliced pear", which this one has.

 

"SIGH"

[Bruce Pennington]

I’m thinking about coming down on “fake”. These are almost all attributed to admirals, generals, and colonels, and they have a distinct NEW look with this unique pattern under the habaki:

[Logan09]

Are you talking about the Polishers "Signature"?

[Bruce Pennington]

Are you talking about the Polishers "Signature"?

Logan, is that what those parallel lines are that my arrow is pointing to? The polisher puts that there? Is that a modern polisher practice? I don't recall seeing those on WWII era blades.

[Logan09]

Unless I am completely wrong I believe the polisher puts these there. I could've swore the number of lines means a certain school/training or? I always thought it was an indication of a professional polish.

 

I have seen this on swords dating from the 1500s and earlier(of course no clue of how recent the polish was)

 

Of course I am still very much a Novice on this.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Logan. So, even if the polisher is modern, that fact alone doesn't mean the blade is new, so hrumph.

[lonely panet]

Hi Bruce

 

that hada is nashiji hada, and i have seen a few showato with it.

 

off the top of my head i sold a custom navy gunto on the NMB by kojima kanemich, a nagamura kiyonobu with this type of hada. all non traditionals

 

also about the oil quenching removing hada?? i havnt heard that before.

[John A Stuart]

Oil quenching is only favourable in that it is less stressful and had fewer failures, Desirable for fast wartime production where quantity was paramount and hardness of the ha was a less critical consideration. Because oil has such a low transfer of heat compared to water less nie are produced and this is apparent in the hamon being weak and less attractive. The grain produced by folding and forging should not be affected by the type of quench. Most modern heat treatment of non-Japanese swords are oil quenched and you can see many examples of well defined grain structure. John

[Logan09]

Can't comment on the age, but I point to post #2. If this sword is listed from Japan how did it get back there? 99% of the Japanese soldiers were killed on Peleliu. 200 captured and around 30 hid on the island.

 

I don't know the whole Japanese laws on blades. But I think this would be considered somewhat of a "Treasure" in Japan if it was indeed owned by Kunio Nakagawa

[lonely panet]

Hi Logan

 

That comment I made was to point out near complete slaughter of all Japanese troops, implying that would have never been repatriated to Japan during or after the war.

 

Just pointing out the flaws and bullshit in the story.

 

Sorry if it as misconstrued

[Logan09]

I was agreeing with what you said. I also don't buy the story on this blade.