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New Tsuba - Still Not Sure What It Is, But...

rkg

By rkg
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rkg Mentor

rkg

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Hey guys,

 

Here's another recent acquisition. I've been studying this one for a while trying to figure out who might have made it.  The seller had it listed as a "higo" piece, but after much study I think (probably) not...

 

The piece is pretty good sized ( 93mm (H) X 92.7mm (W) X 3.05mm (T, nakago ana/seppa dai), 3.81mm (T, max, mimi)),  is made from iron with gold nunome in an amida pattern on the back and what the Japanese call “old man’s beard" (series of concentric circles on the front) executed in gold nunome.  Some of the nunome is missing, some of it is lacquered over.  The “pits” on the back are deliberate, and somebody went to a LOT effort to make them look like corrosion (masterful use of lacquer down in the pits). Same with the “missing” nunome – some isn’t there, some has been rubbed down, some is lacquered over, and some is visible.

 

here's a couple of images:
 

post-204-0-17668900-1547925974_thumb.jpgpost-204-0-18974400-1547926021_thumb.jpg

 

The problem is that I think  really have to look hard at the details on the surface on this piece, so here are some larger images as well:

 

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_front_full_size.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_back_full_size.jpg

 

And... the obligatory 360 view sets.  Click and drag left and right to rotate the tsuba, and click the + button at the bottom to get a magnifier for use in a particular view:

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/shoami_mystery_tsuba_front/shoami_mystery_tsuba_front.html
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/shoami_mystery_tsuba_back/shoami_mystery_tsuba_back.html

 

Looking at the surface carefully is very interesting...

 

The maker went to almost a nightmarish level of effort to make this piece much older than it is – and its fairly old to begin with – if you look at the lacquer itself under the microscope, you see the crazing/signs of age – its not to “amalgam stage” (where any corrosion eats the lacquer), and has not developed that brown undertone you see on mid Muromachi and earlier pieces, but it is definitely not a late edo utushi/has some pretty good age to it (note the crazing, gunk,etc in the microscope images) – I would guess its momyama to –maybe- early edo period. 

Here are some links to microscope images of the surface of the piece:

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/IMG_0028.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/IMG_0031_front.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/IMG_0031_front.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/IMG_0033.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/back1.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/back_2.jpg
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/back_last.jpg 
http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_back_in_pit_1_stop_over.jpg

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_back3.jpg

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_fron_thick_lcaquer.jpg

 

The piece has a lot of lacquer on it in at least a couple of layers (or maybe the second layer is a black wax layer –I’m not going to take an alcohol loaded q-tip to it to find out at this time as I think it belongs there...).

 

The condition for the most part is amazing – almost like it has been “juyo prepped” (I hate it when they do that), but you can still see the odd small areas of corrosion here and there so I’d posit not and that its just been not used much and/or has been cared for a really long time….  I actually had to go look at a number of "known old" pieces I own under the microscope to compare to this piece because of the condition.

 

So who made it?  Its not signed, so we’ll never know for sure.  But after studying all sort of stuff/talking to numerous people, there are two possibilities, kind of depending on the age. If the piece is as old as I think it is, it would probabaly be binned as Ko shoami – the workmanship/the implementation and quality of the nunome/etc is at their “good day” level - Somebody noted that it had an Umetada feel - they were all working in the same place, so maybe one of them got the commission - who knows....    If its later, it was possibly done by Hirata hikozo – the guy almost never worked in iron, but one expert in Japan noted the work is at his level and they had seen works by Hikozo similar to this - where he went nuts with with all kinds of stuff (layers of lacquer/inlay/etc) to create this old tea-tasty effect deliberately - though I'm not sure its organic enough, but what do I know...

 

Enjoy,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

 

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rkg Mentor

rkg

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Dear Richard

 

are you really shure this Tsuba has this age ???

 

i not! to say it honest....and, you do know...

 

me

Christian,

I always pay attention to your observations. :-)

The microphotographs leave a bit to be desired - I still haven't figured how to capture the 3 dimensionality you see through the eyepiece, but yeah, I believe it is that old - I compared it to a number of other lacquered pieces, etc.

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

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ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

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To me this TSUBA has indeed an UTSUSHI feeling, and some aspects remind me of ONIN (diameter, thinness). One criterium is indeed the flawlessly preserved MIMI as Christian points out as well. The corrosion spots look deliberately made, so I think it is a very nice, but also a very late TSUBA. 

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rkg Mentor

rkg

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reverse side Richard !

 

there is never ever happening a Mon on the Sukashi carvings! ( Tsuka-ana) in Muromachi or Momoyama times dating Tsuba! Never!

 

 

 

me

Christian,

Actually, that is actually not exactly true - you see it used on ko kinko stuff sometimes (though arguably it might be binned later - you see them use it alot as a decoration and sometimes apparently as an adjuster...) and you also see Hirata hikozo pieces with this punch mark from new or close to it - there's even one up right now on Fred Wessberg's site...

 

Best,

rkg

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Steves87 Experienced

Steves87

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I apologise in advance for adding my 2 cents as I am very much a beginner, but it very much looks like the corrosion pits have been converted with tannic acid or something similar, usually such and acid will clean soft metals of patina and dirt leaving them quite contrasting, but if an iron corrosion has covered a softmetal and the covering is thick enough, the iron rust can be converted on top of the soft metal giving a 'buried' appearance. Not saying any of this is happening here, but ive seen it many times before and this reminds me very much of the cases ive seen

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Ganko Proficient

Ganko

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The type of impression that Christian is calling a mon is the mark that is left when a punch is used to displace the metal around the ana to tighten the tsuba  which has become loose on the sword. It could have occurred anytime in the life of the tsuba. Possibly to fit it on a different sword  and as recent as a few decades or a century ago. It is certainly more aesthetically pleasing than a crude flat nosed punch. The metal is typically displaced more than necessary and then filled to give a snug fit. I have seen these punch marks numerous times on iron and kinko pieces. They were not put in by the original maker.

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ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

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......if an iron corrosion has covered a softmetal and the covering is thick enough, the iron rust can be converted on top of the soft metal giving a 'buried' appearance......

Steve,

 

this sounds strange to me. Iron oxides (= corrosion) won't stick on soft metals, that is my experience, but perhaps you have some samples to show?

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Steves87 Experienced

Steves87

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Steve,

 

this sounds strange to me. Iron oxides (= corrosion) won't stick on soft metals, that is my experience, but perhaps you have some samples to show?

I completely agree with you re the sticking on soft metals, think of it more as a bridging from one side to the other.

I have no readily available examples to show, which doesnt look good for me I know, I can only promise it is a possibility and Im not making this up.

Rust converting solutions can convert even water run rust stains to a thicker solid.

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Steves87 Experienced

Steves87

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Hi Jean, although I dont know all the ingredients usually in these solutions, yes, I beleive phosphoric acid is the base of most these rust converter solutions.

 

Richard, I apologise for not saying this in my first post, but your photography is amazing (and I like the Tsuba too)

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rkg Mentor

rkg

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Stephen, no problem - the more the merrier...

 

On the pits, look at the following image - the crazing/surface is lacquer work - the first is down in a pit - its the same stuff as is on the front

 

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_back_in_pit_1_stop_over.jpg

 

and here's a spot where there's a hole in it - and you can see its lacquer/rust underneath:

 

http://www.rkgphotos.com/facebook_stuff/amida_mystery_tsuba/amida_mystery_tsuba_micro_photos/IMG_0033.jpg

 

I'm still trying to figure out how to capture the 3-dimensionality you see through they eyepiece short of jerry rigging my fuji W3 to the stero eyepieces - it seems like if you can see it through one eyepiece, you should be able to capture it with the camera.  But I digress

 

This is the kind of thing you see on old surfaces - you've got oxidation of various sorts, lacquer(s), layer(s) of wax (which you have to be careful about removing - sometimes they are very old and deliberately put on), organics from handling, dissimilar metals,  and the reactions between the various components of this witch's brew + water in the air etc etc.

 

FWIW, that tannic acid is evil stuff - its mostly a rust converter, so if you put it on an existing patina, your lovely existing iron oxides (both good and bad) turn into iron tannate, and I'm not at all sure it does -anything- to bare metal - back before I knew better I played with it some and followed some directions from the internet - you could put it on bare metal and repeated coatings seemed to create a patina, but you hit it with anything caustic (read:water with a little baking soda in it), and the "patina" vanishes (or at least it did on my experiments).

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

 

P.S. Oh, and thanks on the images - they are actually kind of hack until i get my normal tosogu station put back together (I injured my back, and I have to put a lot of heavy stuff up on arms, etc so I haven't gotten it done yet...) I'll do better images when that's done...

 

I apologise in advance for adding my 2 cents as I am very much a beginner, but it very much looks like the corrosion pits have been converted with tannic acid or something similar, usually such and acid will clean soft metals of patina and dirt leaving them quite contrasting, but if an iron corrosion has covered a softmetal and the covering is thick enough, the iron rust can be converted on top of the soft metal giving a 'buried' appearance. Not saying any of this is happening here, but ive seen it many times before and this reminds me very much of the cases ive seen

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Steves87 Experienced

Steves87

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This is an extremely interesting Tsuba for me Richard. I can see the inlays and they are quite a pleasing arrangement, but I cannot understand the lacquering of this piece, is it a 'black' lacquer or a clear which has turned dark over time?

 

Your excellent macro photos do show a crazing which I would definitely associate with lacquer and as for rust converters, save them for car bodies, not Tsuba ;-)

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FlorianB Community Regular

FlorianB

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The combination of different styles (Ko-Katchushi, Shimizu/Jingo and maybe one or two more) clearly hint to the revival pieces in late Edo-Period. The details just reveal the effort which was made to gain an old look so it’s far above average.

It would have been a wonderful example in the wabi-sabi discussion on this board some time ago: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26501-which-of-your-tsubas-best-embodies-the-wabi-sabi-aesthetic/?hl=%2Bwabi+%2Bsabi

Florian

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