Length question

[Mark C]

Hi All,

 

Just picked up a nice blade and have a question on it's length,

 

It has a nagasa of 12.5", would this be an O-tanto or Ko-wakazashi

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[Brian]

Mark,

 

I may be wrong here, but I think those definitions are more about the feel and look of the blade than based on actual strict physical dimensions.

I have seen blades that have a nagasa of 35cm called o-tanto based on the appearance and mounts.

I think it is probably an o-tanto, but post a pic and you will get more opinions.

The terms are loose, and some will call it one thing, and some another.

Is it hira-zukuri and what does the nakago look like? What koshirae?

 

There is an article somewhere that goes more into this, but not sure where I read it. No easy answer, I think it has to go down to gut feel.

 

Brian

 

Edit to add: Here you go: http://www2.una.edu/takeuchi/DrT_Jpn_Cu ... of_wak.htm

Excellent article by Dr T, who is a member here on the NMB and has a great website. Some very good reading there clarifying the confusion while pointing out how difficult it is to classify them

[remzy]

At first glance id say.. ko wakizashi, but i guess it would depend on alot of other factors such as sugata and sori, mainly.

Then again, im no expert, just adding my grain of salt to it.

[Mark C]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for that.

 

The link is very interesting reading, thanks Brian.

 

I have attached a couple of pics of the sword, Width between Hamachi and Munemachi is 1 3/16" wide.

Brian, if you want to move this to another section, please do.

 

Again many thanks

 

Regards

 

Mark

[huntershooter]

The hira zukuri blade would make it an "o-tanto" from the little I know.

[Henry Wilson]

I'd call it a wakizashi

[Pete Klein]

Hiratsukuri and sakizori -- Sunnobi Tanto perhaps?

[remzy]

Two mekugi ana might indicate that it is suriage, mayhaps not, but i really dont think this look much of a tanto, imho.

[zuiho]

Hello,

 

 

I am usually a lurker but this question was intriguing and

led me to some quick research. In "One hundred masterpieces from the Collection of Walter Compton" you can find

a sword, length 30.3 cm, by Hiromitsu, dated 1362, being called a

wakizashi. this sword is wide and thin, hira zukuri, like your example.

On the other hand, a slightly shorter sword by Yasutsugu from

the year 1350, at 28.2 cm. is termed a tanto. Also hira zukuri, it is

a more narrow blade.

I think the second mekugiana on your blade leads me to believe

it is slightly hamachi okuri, the lower mekugiana being original.

This implies a nagasa that , originally, was slightly longer than at

present. That extra length would lead me, at least, to call the blade

a wakizashi.

 

Bill G.

[doug e lewis]

Very nice blade,

i have no knowledge, on the NMB scale, but..... IMHO

 

it is a ko-wakaski. the feel is right, even tho i don't hold it. looks right.

great photo!

 

i can picture...uhmmm..sense how to use this wak in combat,

i.e. Niten-Ryu, the style of Musashi.

 

i am probably over ethusiastic, especially for my limited hands on experience with the real deal, but i vote Ko-Wak.

 

now someone who knows what htey are talking about can kantai the pretty thing.

 

thats for the phots. any kosirea?

 

doug e

[Guido]

From the book 静嘉堂名刀百選 (SEIKADŌ MEITŌ HYAKUSEN), published by the 静嘉堂美術館 (SEIKADŌ BIJUTSUKAN):

[doug e lewis]

Hi Guido-San,

 

can't read a word of that scroll. my kanji knowledge is limited right now to the kanki for katana/tachi, Nippon, karate-do, and one or two other words [like kanji and word for dog]

 

please translate and explain

 

thank you,

 

doug e lewis

[Brian]

Hi Guido,

 

I would appreciate a summary if possible, as you know most of us here are still novices with little to no knowledge of Japanese language

I thought Dr T's link I posted summed it up quite nicely, so hope everyone at least gave it a read. Will be glad to hear if there is anything to add to that in the above extract.

There, I also found this great article by Guido simpy explaining how to convert those pesky shaku, sun, bu and rin to easy mm and cm. I had no idea it was so easy, and thanks for that. http://www2.una.edu/takeuchi/DrT_Jpn_Cu ... _chart.htm

It's all about the number 303. Makes life a lot easier for me.

 

Brian

[Martin]

...simpy explaining how to convert those pesky shaku, sun, bu and rin to easy mm and cm. I had no idea it was so easy, and thanks for that. Brian

 

Or try this one :D : http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/8187/Script.htm

[Mark C]

Hi All,

 

Many thanks for all your thoughts on my new aquisition.

 

Excellent links Brian and Guido, it has cleared the length question a little.

 

I have attached a couple of pics, one of the mounts, nothing special, someone has robbed the menuki and added rather crudely made horn fuchi and kashira. the other pic is a closeup on part of the hamon.

 

Again, many thanks for all your thoughts/comments.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[remzy]

From the mount i would say... o-tanto, but the sugata tells me ko-waki... hum...

We might need expert opinions in here

[Guido]

I would appreciate a summary if possible, ...

Katana: more than two Shaku, Teisun = 2 shaku 3 Sun 5 Bu

Wakizashi: more than one and less than two Shaku

Ô-Wakizashi: over 1 Shaku 8 Sun

Tantô: less than one Shaku, Teisun 8 Sun 5 Bu

Sunnobi-tantô: longer than Teisun

Sunzumari-tantô: less than Teisun

 

"Teisun" cold be translated with "standard length".

 

"Ô-Tantô" or "Ko-Wakizashi" are not terms I ever heard in Japan.

[Paul Martin]

A Selection of 100 Meito from the Seikado Museum.

 

Sword data. (Classification by Length)

 

Katana

2 shaku (60.6 cm) and over .

Average--2 shaku, 3 sun, 5 bu (71.2 cm)

 

Wakizashi

Over 1 shaku (30.3 cm-60.6 cm) but no more than 2 shaku

Owakizashi are blades over 1 shaku, 8 sun (54.5 cm).

 

Tanto

Blades under 1 shaku (30.3 cm)

On average, 8 sun, 5 bu (25,8 cm). Above the average is classed as sunobi, below is called sunzumari.

 

The classification of katana and tachi is not due to length. The katana is where the cutting edge is uppermost when worn through the sash with the makers inscription facing outwards (sashi-omote). When the sword is worn suspended from the sash with the cutting edge towards the ground with the makers inscription facing outwards, this is a tachi. Long tachi etc, of more than 3 shaku (90.9 cm) are referred to as Odachi, whereas small blades (tachi style) under 2 shaku (60.6 cm) are called ko-dachi.

[Nobody]

"Ô-Tantô" or "Ko-Wakizashi" are not terms I ever heard in Japan.

Hi Guido san,

 

I suspect that you already have the book "Nihonto no kansho-kiso-chishiki (日本刀の鑑賞基礎知識)" by Ogasawara Nobuo (小笠原信夫). There is a description about ko-wakizashi on p. 59. He says in the book that ko-wakizashi means a small (or short) wakizashi and the term is for a style of koshirae.