HELP NEEDED for Sword Markings~ VET acquired from 1st marine

[LISAMORRILL]

Hello Good People~ I have been collecting swords (and started collecting Japanese swords about 2 years ago)- This came from father of a fellow teacher that I work with~ I went to his home, and he had this sword, his helmet, dogtags, an m3 fighting knife and a rifle, I also had him write an affadavit stating he brought the items back!! My problem is, my resource library is limited and I cannot find these markings that are on the kashirae, etc etc It is certainly late war, not a handmade blade, but everything else is wartime, no doubt in my mind! Can anyone help me with the ID? is it Locomotive related or? Sorry if I sound so simplistic, but I am a newbie...Thanks! Any help would be appreciated!

[cabowen]

The fuchi-gashira are not standard WWII Japanese military pattern. The handle has been rewrapped and incorrectly placed two menuki on one side of the tsuka. The tsuba looks a bit thick. I am guessing this may be a non-Japanese made item. Show us pictures of the blade and nakago to be sure...

[Geraint]

Hi.

 

First up please sign your posts with at least a first name, (board rules). We need to see pictures of the rest of the sword to be certain but at the moment there are some question marks. The mounts are not shingunto mounts, the hilt wrap is certainly wrong and the tsuba is also doubtful. If you can find it there should be a mekugi, (bamboo peg) under the hjilt wrap at some point. This should push out though you may have to struggle a bit. When this is free the sword should come out of the nakago, can't resist saying that you need to be careful at this point. The decorative motif, which I assume you refer to as the markings, has no connection with anything railway oriented I'm afraid.

 

A picture of the blade overall and of the nakago with any markings, as well as overall shots of the whole sword will allow people to give you the lowdown.

 

Don't get your hopes up on this one, it doesn't look too good at the moment. Meanwhile have a look at this site, http://ohmura-study.net/905.html Lots of things to see.

 

All the best

[Jean]

Geraint,

 

Name is Lisa Morrill as stated in the avatar :D

[LISAMORRILL]

Thank you and yes, pardon my lack of etiquette, my name is lisa- I am aware of the inconsistencies of the two menuki per side, and it most certainly is a late war sword- I cannot identify the radiating disks that grace the tsuba kashira and fuchi- it is indeed vet brought back, but I am interested in the significance of those mysterious circles- blade is crude..my thought is manchukuo, but...

[Marius]

These would be chrysanthemums, the imperial crest (mon). Sorry, but this looks like a Chinese copy.

[Brian]

Lisa,

Great to see the female collectors coming out. Hope we can assist you with your collecting. As you can see, this one is not a slam dunk, since the fittings are so a-typical. They might just be decorative logos, or it may be of non-Japanese origin. Don't hold the schepticism again some of the members...it is just that we have seen so many Chinese swords before with a "legit provenance" story attached, so we have to go by what we see and nothing else.

We do need to see the tang though, and also some pics of the blade. Then we can tell for sure.

May be a theater made sword or made in an accupied territory. Or just a custom ordered sword with unusual fittings that was rewrapped later.

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this one.

 

Brian

[Kiipu]

Cross-Reference

Similar fittings, but a little different.

IJA officers factory made sword?

[Spartancrest]

I am not a sword collector but that is very good detective work Thomas.     I wonder if Lisa is still waiting on this information? You might try a PM and let her know.

[Kiipu]

Hi Dale, I think these fitting were intended for use on swords used by the Chines puppet government(s).  Some fittings appear to have been made in Japan while others were made in China.  A rather obscure subject but worthy of scholarly research.  Here are some more examples for your edification.

Please help with translating the writing on sword

 

Attention: @LISAMORRILL

[Dave R]

It's a known type of WWII era sword, but as for which arm or country there is little known about them. It would be useful to know the theatre of operations where this was picked up .

[Kiipu]

At the end of the war, the 1st Marine Division, the same division mentioned in the OP, was sent to North China.  As a result, here in the United States, we have a good sampling of Chinese weapons courtesy of these marines.  These weapons range from old Imperial Chinese to recent Japanese and Collaboration Government production.  Sadly, the "forum" experts cry fake every opportunity they have when they see them!

[Bruce Pennington]

An old Air Force buddy sent me these from a sword his father-in-law brought back from WWII.  Same emblem:

 

I'll update when he sends nakago pics.

 

@Brian - could we get this moved to the Military forum?

[Bruce Pennington]

Just got the saya photos, and nakago.  Typical nakago for these.