Tcat

Anyone seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtSSLaSdEtE

Woah there! :lol: You did say: "Are we really hoping to find new collectors as a result of popular (and totally nonfactual) media?" Which sounds pretty scornful of 'nonfactual media' (the clue is the 'totally'), then followed by "What sort of collector.....Ninja fringe dwellers...ludicrous film admirers...game console addicts" (clues are 'sort of collector', 'fringe dwellers', ludicrous and addicts). I think you hung the elitism tag around your own neck by rushing straight to questioning collectors' paths to the field rather than their devotion to it. Anyway... I am not sure how this would devalue my input, but it wouldn't bother me because I am somewhat of a mass media elitist, I am very picky about what I choose to absorb from the mass media! (Try to be anyway.) Sorry, it seemed from your last post that you kind of did doubt this, my mistake. Yes, but these facts do not devalue their contribution to getting newbies involved with collecting, which was kind of the point of my argument. That and the fact that this 'entertainment' will represent a proportionally greater and greater source of inspiration for collecting as time goes on. The fact is that nowadays using a sword as originally intended (as a weapon), is in itself a fantasy, entertainment. What used to be 'real' military training is a pastime now rather than a serious and 'real world' applicable endeavor. Agree entirely, which is another reason why I think that interest in Nihonto can only grow over time - in great part because of channels like the NMB.

I was assuming that "we" were hoping to find new collectors of any kind, as long as they genuinely show interest in, value and help preserve Nihonto. Are you saying this would be attracting the wrong kind of people? I think this is an example of the elitism mentioned earlier showing its head. If it is the death of the pursuit which we worry about (though I am not worried..), remember that beggars can't be choosers. I also think fantasy and legend have their place in inspiring interest in "real life" pursuits. Either way and whether you like it or not, there are for sure many people interested in this area originally primarily due to fictional media. The only thing that matters is that they participate in the appreciation and preservation of nihonto and related arts. Do you disagree? I think the reasons for an interest being held are dynamic, that is to say what captures someones attention initially may not be the same thing that holds that attention for years and years. The important thing is how many new people can be properly introduced to the world of Nihonto, and while being new not be put off, rather spend enough time in this field to find their own particular area of fascination and concentrate on it. If we value this hobby, we really should be doing all we can to not push people away. Modern ones. For example, I would wager that there are quite a few Nihonto collectors who owe a lot of their interest to an obsession with the concept of the light saber or a romanticized samurai drama. Even animated ones, you better believe it! I predict there will be far more where they came from in the future. seriously Keith, how many people get interested in tsuba through a path otherwise unrelated to the sword? I believe that an appreciation for tsuba comes only after an initial interest in nihonto in general (primarily fully mounted swords), for at least 99.99% of the time anyway. This hobby is an acquired taste, it takes time for an interest in tsuba as a field of their own to grow (and even for blades themselves; consider most newbies would not even think about buying a "bare blade in shirasaya", after all, its not even a sword). As for motivation for collecting I think that there must be many different factors that all come together to make a person say to themselves, yes, I'm really going to buy myself a Japanese sword because I really want to own one. That is not a decision to take lightly and I think that the true motivation for it is multifaceted and nuanced. Many, for sure, but not JUST because they watched one or two of these films. My point is that they play an important role in the process of 'converting' an individual towards a true interest in nihonto. Rushing out to buy a library on Japanese swords and having one's level of interest increase are not the same thing. What I meant by my original post was that there are a great deal more potentially influencing factors 'out there' in the media which could inspire an interest in nihonto than there used to be; there are so many more media platforms than there used to be, and they are so much more advanced, interactive and pervasive than they used to be. Of course they form a greater part of the routs of inspiration for interest in this field now than they did before, in the future even more so. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

I come a little late to this, but many very interesting points have been raised in the discussion. I am fairly optimistic in that I believe interest in Japanese swords outside of Japan will grow over the next 50 years, slowly but surely. One main reason is supply and demand, there are a great many more people in the world today than there were 50 years ago, but the same number (actually fewer and fewer) antique Japanese swords. Pricing is now about as low as it has ever been at any point in the last 40 years (adjusted for inflation). The Japanese economy is poor, though even if it were to get worse I do not see the value of Nihonto dropping much further. There will always be rich and super rich collectors propping up the market, especially the high end. Another point as mentioned is that there has been a greater dissemination of knowledge thanks to modern communications technology and media (the internet). Interest in and awareness of swords is thus boosted. There are other less obvious things happening too though…Japanese pop culture, partly due to the internet and partly due to various offerings (products, branding, film, animation, graphic novels) has changed from the alternative to thoroughly mainstream. As a result, authentic 'Japanness' is itself a commodity, of which Japanese swords form a good part. The post 80s/90s generation is aware of this but for the most part have not reached the age or financial stability to show a measurable interest, but I believe they are coming. Also worth mentioning I think is that the micro culture of samurai, martial arts, 'budo', ninja, and representations thereof are now cultural icons in and of their own right. Again, they have transcended from the alternative to the mainstream. In the modern context, these themes stand alone and almost unrelated to other things Japanese. A ninja nowadays isn’t necessarily Japanese. Any modern comic book hero can wield a katana, regardless of his (or her) ethnic origin. True quality and beauty in craftsmanship is timeless and not bound by cultural norms. Anyone with a 'good eye can appreciate Nihonto. Anyone who values the sleek production quality of a piece of high end modern consumer electronics such as the iphone can not help but appreciate a fine blade in polish, simply because of the crispness of lines, the precision of the work and play of the light. The fact that the crafts associated with Nihonto are all handicraft rather than machine built should add another level of fascination to the casual observer. On new collectors and encouraging future generations to take up the path. I think something very important to consider is that the path to collecting or serious interest in this field is dynamic and changes with the times. The route that young people may have taken 50 odd years ago to get where they are today regarding their interest in swords will almost certainly be different to those taken by young people entering this field post year 2000. I agree that the treasure hunting aspect is pretty much done for. No doubt that fact will have the effect of removing many would-be potential collectors from the foray, though sometimes it is easy to forget what exactly it was that brought us this far, what it was that helped develop the initial seed of interest into a hardy growth that stood the test of time. I remember handling a Japanese sword whilst still training in karate and aikido 10+ years ago, at the time Nihonto were of very little interest to me. Despite this, the fact is that today I understand that studying Japanese martial arts certainly forms the foundations of my current interest in Nihonto. So why was I not interested sooner? (That is a difficult question to answer and I wont try to do it here.) Suffice to say, I believe that serious interest in Nihonto is somewhat of an acquired taste, and there are numerous challenges to getting involved. At first the world of Nihonto seems impenetrably complex for a number of reasons - lack of English language learning material (though this is changing), lack of western experts (changing a little), consistent use of Japanese terminology, the prohibitively high cost of collecting quality work, the notorious and undeniably fickle nature of Nihonto enthusiasts, a perception that those who show a true interest are engaging in 'nutty fringe' elements (samurai sword fanatics! reenactors!), various governments' and the media’s tacit support for a negative attitude towards folk interested in weapons (even if ancient), the multitude of fakes and replicas on the market intended to remove money from naive newcomers, the monumental cost of restoration etc – the list is almost endless. And yet…we have young collectors among us here. As Brian said, I think the survival of the art of the sword and sword related craftsmanship in Japan must be of greatest concern. I am both surprised and not surprised to learn that interest has fallen so much in Japan in recent years. Surprised because I would have thought that the traditionally patriotic tendencies of the Japanese might mitigate the alienating effects of modernity on interest in antiquities. However, despite a brief (and perhaps shameful) renaissance of interest in the sword during WW2, we find ourselves again in a situation where swords and their use are so far removed from daily life in Japan as to be almost foreign objects to the 21st century Japanese. Where outside of Japan there still exists some intrigue and mystery regarding 'samurai swords', inside Japan the academic pursuit of studying the craft is perhaps viewed by the young as rather stuffy and rigid, and culminating only in a dead end; there is very little money or social leverage to be had from it. The culture of instant gratification as previously mentioned clearly plays a role here also. Either way, the current lay of the land does not make for a situation that captures young people's imaginations the same way that historical legends, action films, animated series and graphic novels do – which is where I believe the future of this hobby rests – in the hands of storytellers actually outside the realms of the serious academic pursuit at the core of the Nihonto world. Thoughts?

Thanks to all! I thought it looked 'kinda neat' but $450 is way too much.

Anyone seen one of these before? Worth picking up? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-woodbl ... 3a748ba82d

Like night and day! Fantastic.

the 'long game'? I suppose the theory is keep it up for long enough, eventually someone with more money than brains will make an impulse buy... I do wonder how often (if ever) this sort of thing pays off.

Hi again Bob, Was it signed and do you have any more pics? Regards,

I don't think so.

Interesting!

Some good points have been made regarding getting beginners into this hobby and and pros/cons of elitism... as far as I can see, there were three very good reasons to visit this exhibition : I think this one is my favorite :

What makes you think that it might be a 'Chinese copy'? And there I was thinking that if a saya looks ok and works ok.....

Beautiful! Any more pics? Thanks for posting.

Pabbi1 please sign your posts with your real name as per forum rules. Are you Brandon's friend? If you are looking for information about tsuba or advise on how not to burn your money on Chinese fakes, you have come to the right place.

Thanks to all!

Dear All, I have noticed that there are a number of Nihonto dealers (some with a considerable volume of stock) present on the web that are not listed in the commercial links sections on the entry page for NMB. If you know of any links or website addresses of dealers which are not included, please post them below. Thanks!

2, 5 (not sure about 6 ) ,7, 8 and 9

Eric H, source?

Laurent, SBG is for low-priced, non-traditionally made, modern replica swords of various types, it is a good forum and has its place in the 'sword world', I am a member there also, however this forum is exclusively for the discussion of real Nihonto and related arts. The two are really quite different Regards,

Dear All, It has come to my attention that there seems to be widespread disagreement regarding the dates for various Japanese historical periods. Take for example, the Muromachi period. One history text book gives it as starting between 1336-1338. http://histories.cambridge.org/extract? ... 223546A006 Then there's Encyclopaedia Britannica, which gives 1338-1573: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... chi-period Japan Guide, which gives it as 1333-1573 http://www.Japan-guide.com/e/e2134.html The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY, which gives it as 1392-1573 http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/muro/hd_muro.htm Art and Archaeology, which gives 1392-1573 http://www.art-and-archaeology.com/time ... machi.html The Web Museum in Paris, which gives it as 1338-1573 http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/tl/Japan/muromachi.html The University of Idaho, which gives 1392-1573 http://www.caa.uidaho.edu/arch499/nonwe ... period.htm And the Asia Society, in America, which gives 1392-1568 http://www.asiasocietymuseum.org/region ... apterID=39 And Wikipedia gives 1337-1573 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muromachi_period Though the majority seem to think that the period ends in 1573, not all do, and there are many dates given for the start. Can someone please tell me the correct dates for the Muromachi (and/or all) period(s)?

Swimming in Japanese armour: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19878571

No limit budget? Yoshimitsu...

Thank you very much for this Stefan! I remember your website, and looking for it recently and being disappointed that I couldnt find it. I think this should be a sticky or go in the articles section, excellent resource.

Fastastic news Ken! When's the next one?