Tcat

Please dont block China...Im there. There is enough blocked content when using the web here as it is Incidentally, I have already registered - best of luck!

Kevin, Let me rephrase to: "Cutting down on the import and sale of a large portion of the Chinese made Japanese styled curved blades over 50cm which were ending up in high street shops and UK ebay stores." Only a small number of people who want a Japanese (style) blade are in the market for choku-to (jo-koto) replicas. While I agree with your gripes regarding some added aggrovation with customs proceedures (the onus being on the individual to provide proof of age and provenance of a sword being my main issue) those who have lost revenue are the aforementioned highstreet shops who were selling reproduction swords for neither re-enactment nor martial arts training purposes. Although legislation has no doubt made life more complicated for UK based Japanese art and sword dealers, loss of revenue from sales has not occured. What is likely have occured is some loss of revenue through time wasted in negotiating with customs and ignorant shipping agencies bleating about the "inability to ship swords to the UK" - a pet peeve of mine. Sotheby's closing their Japanese art department in London had nothing whatsoever to do with the new sword legislation (which would not have affected them in the slightest anyway) and everything to do with economics, the non-necessity of an operational Japanese Works of Art department in London and a general dip in the Japanese art market as a whole, just ask Christian Bouvet. Whilst I do not fault your logic, tactics or reasoning, for better or worse you have chosen to ignore the advice you requested (and recieved from two of the most highly respected UK experts) in this thread. I will reserve judgement on this untill something (or nothing) changes as a result of your time spent on this matter. Regards,

I would be happy to wager a first class stamp on this but in the end agree with Clive. I believe Johnathan Nandris had a fairly well worded drapht for this purpose back when the original (new) law was being considered but I am unsure of the value of hundreds of copies of the same letter...and a toothless tiger isnt so bad. The current legislation also does Nihonto enthusiasts the favour at least cutting down on the number of cheap China-tana imports. This encourages more investment in true Japanese swords and the artform we appreciate. As for the "offensive weapons list" I think legally speaking this is a different kettle of fish and may be a waste of breath. Arn't nunchaku are also listed as "offensive weapons"....? Not quite sure when two pieces of stick attached by a string became a deadly weapon but I think it was around the same time Bruce Lee became popular...

I have a question about papers, I hope it is not too far off topic to be answered... Baring in mind that sending a sword to shinsa is not exactly cheap and that certification papers can mean a great deal in judging the market value of a sword, what I would like to know is what sort of compensation (if any) is offered by the NBTHK / NTHK in the event of a sword recieving two different sets of papers (from the same organisation) which causes either an increase/decrease in percieved market value of a sword? There may be numerous costs to consider: insurace, market inflation/deflation, choice of level of polish etc... Does anyone know of any law suits which have taken place in Japan / USA involving this kind of dispute?

On the subject of gunto koshirae I offer my opinion with regards to my viewpoint on what role nihonto (or more pertinantly, what role blades in their WWII mountings) played in the history of the Japanese sword and its mountings as a whole. I belive a regulation gunto koshirae is not art. I do not feel that I need to argue this point here... To the best of my knowledge and as has been discussed previously on this thread, not all koshirae in the history of the Japanese sword were indeed art. Gunto koshirae were only in use during the period Japan was fighting the war, and though the military campaign may bave been of high significance it did not take up a considerable stretch of time when considered against the length in years of sword culture in Japan. Baring these factors in mind, I have an old blade, probably mid 14thC, which was mounted in a WWII gunto koshirae when I recieved it. I would choose not to separate the WWII koshirae from the blade but would also choose not to store/display them together as a sword. Although I am familiar with the perspective of collecters like SwordGuyJoe, I prefer other aspects of beauty to the tragedy embodied by gunto koshirae, though I understand his sentiment. My personal reasons for this are as follows: I believe blades to be more beautiful when viewed separately from gunto koshirae. I believe the sword will have more historical significance if it is preserved in its entirety including koshirae than if it is not. I would find it difficult to justify selling a gunto koshirae separate from the blade, but it should be known that I do not intend to primarily benefit monetarily from my hobby of collecting old Japanese swords... One of the many reasons nihonto remain interesting to me is that I percieve them to be special objects. Why? - Because I believe them to be one of only a very few objects in this world, when, given the right circumstances are capable of transcending the often applied acid test "art or craft". How? - Some blades are pure art and were created to be so. Some blades were designed purely as weapons and display perfectly the aspects of the traditional Japanese craft of speedily producing an exceptionally well functioning sabre. In the best old blades however, the combination of both remarkably high levels of variation and decorative creativity, and the fact that they were both executed at the highest possible technological level of the time makes them to me, both art and craft, this is unique. Nowdays, smiths are producing either art or craft depending on the sword they make and who their client is. Either the sword was designed primarily for usage or primarily for display; however when steel swords first arrived in Japan from the asian continent there was no such dichotomy - they were chinese weapons. Somewhere in between now and then, a time was reached where not only were all Japanese swords unique in style decoration and appearance but were also produced using the highest metalurgical technology then available. It is under these circumstances I believe that certain swords fall into both the catagories of art and craft in the strictest sense. but I am probably just being romantic

nuki and noto must be a pain... gift blade for a skilled carpenter?

My thoughts exactly.... Just looks too badly gone to be pure water damage... and if it were then why would the blade be relatively healthy?

Lol Grey, I can just imagine how thrilled you were with the raggedy wooden burrs along the edge. At least it was a "sanmai" blade This part sounds familiar to me at least!

Please see link: http://cgi.ebay.com/F433-REAL-Japanese- ... n_Antiques seems to be something out of the ordinary.

The dream itself was bizarre or the fact that you had a dream was bizarre? I somewhat ashamedly admit that nihonto have penetrated deep enough into my psyche that I am occasionally prone to the odd nihonto related dream... my latest was that the tip of an okissaki on one of my shinshinto blades was broken off by some careless handeler... woke up in a cold sweat!

As Lee said... 3-4 years ago that would most likely have sold on ebay for $1500 or so, perhaps more. Nowdays...well..... All in all I dont think you got such a terrible deal so dont be too bummed. I am not an expert on nihonto pricing but it depends on what you really want from your blade. Sure, its not a flawless piece but you're not likely to find a flawless muramachi period tanto even for three times what you paid. As long as the seller hasnt mislead you on the date, you have there a 460 year old Japanese short sword with its temper line in tact and baring a signature. I might add...though the tsuba is much later it is quite a little peach from what I can see in the photos...a nice shape with some decent carving. The theme is a dragon chasing a mythical dragon pearl, aka a dragon ball, historically a very popular artistic theme in east asia.

Thanks Markus and all contributors. Oh boy I have a lot to learn....

Markus, many thanks for your input; you dont think its "源尚之"? That second character looks more like a 尚 to me...but I am coming at it from a Chinese (as a foreign language) perspective...

Thanks to all for the helpful feedback - but now I am puzzling as to whether the mei should be read Yasuyuki or Yasusada! In any case, is there a good chance that neither this smith nor mei were recorded in any references?

Gentlemen, I recently aquired a tanto which I believe to be Edo period. The forging is quite fine and there are no flaws that I can see so far. I believe the mei reads "Minamoto Yasuyuki", but with my limited resources I have been unable to find anything more about the smith. Nagasa is 31cm. I do not at the moment have the blade to hand for more measurements... I would be very grateful if anyone could suggest who signed like this! School/Dates? Any other thoughts would be most welcome. Thanks in advance.

Thanks Ian, this is definately fine grained blue samegawa and not snakeskin, sorry Lorenzo! I believe the technique to have been excecuted just as you described.. Exactly what I thought... I am not sure about this. I wonder why the same would have darkened to such a degree despite being protected by several clear coats of urushi...? Not going to touch it... theres no dirt/grime on the saya. This is a trick of lacquer not grime. Ford, I believe that actually the black lines are where the same has been removed then lacquered over. It is more obvious with the thing in hand however. I include a final pic for interest.

Wasnt sure where to post this but thought someone might get a kick out of it or be able to enlighten me as to its origins. Koshirea is for a sunnobi tanto. The fittings are iron and I believe it to be Higo. At first glance quite subdued and in regular indoor light you dont see much, however under UV something quite interesting emerges. Apologies in advance for the cameraphone quality. In the two comparison photos the upper shot was taken with standard indoor lighting, the lower with a uv enhanced lamp. The details were taken under uv also. The inlay work is far more subdued in normal lighting and disappears entirely in shadows. Has anyone seen this kind of thing done before? I think this is Edo period...opinions?

I have a tanto and a couple of tsuba I may be interested in submitting. Max of 10 items per client? So youre having no trouble getting to the 300+ submissions mark... Good news!

Some hada.

John, many thanks for this, and also for the info and oshigata on your website. Can anyone tell me the reason why people might assume kissakisagaru bohi are atobori? Please see attached pics. Measurements are as follows: motohaba 29.2mm sakihaba 22.3mm motokasane 7.3mm sakikasane 5.2mm nakago 158mm kissaki (measured from yokote) 41mm

To all who have posted, many thanks. I am here to learn and am flattered and grateful that you guys are willing to give your time to this, I just hope the back and forths are tongue in cheek (or mostly)! :lol: This evening (UK time) I will upload some more pics and precise measurements.. Just want to comment on a few posts first: Thanks Mark... This is interesting and seems to give a some backing to the possibility of the blade being sue-koto... Many thanks Guido. I had thought (with my unttrained eyes) this sword was O-Suriage partially thanks to the article by Nakahara (thanks for the translation Paul!) linked in here by Brian. I had read that article here on NMB previously; the diagram at the bottom is part of why I chose to acquire this sword - based on how the hi appear on the nakago after reshaping... (Yes - this is probably quite a n00by approach but I was looking for a genuine koto blade with an obvious coarse "old style" hada... the look of the nakago and the hi made me think o-suriage before I saw Eric's description of the blade and it just seemed like it have a story to tell...yeah, n00by and romantic I know...) Thanks reinhard.. what are your thoughts? Ted, this is very interesting....what might the "(or more)" be? Is there a chance that this sword could indeed have been made by one of these smiths or is this pretty unlikey? Also, are there any lesser known schools or smiths people are aware of that also made swords with Kissaki-sagari bo hi? Is this a rule with exceptions? Guido...would you be willing to comment on the atobori theory? Ted, being a craftsman perhaps you can shed light onto the reason atobori hi stop at the yokote and are not cut further into the kissaki? I was always under the impression that hi are always carved after a sword is completed - Does the hi carving occur before heat treatment if the hi are original? Jacques, please dont keep your mouth shut if you have any other info or ideas about this sword..! Come now guys, no more ad hominem attacks - theories are fair game however!! Sorry I keep saying this but Im trying to learn here so need explanations/reasoning as to why one theory is more likely to be correct than another! New pics (motohaba, mune, kissaki, hi etc) and pertinent measurements coming very shortly...stay tuned!

haha! Jean, it certainly didnt take long huh? I really appreciate that people are willing to offer their insight! Great to see learned folk contributing, all of whom I have read much from in the past. Jacques, I will be very happy to provide these but don't have the sword to hand right now - they will be up here within a couple weeks so please watch this space!

Thanks to all for the quick responses. To clarify...these pictures were indeed taken by Eric M. but I do not believe they were ever up on his website. My memory of the exact details are hazy but I think that the blade was sold on consignment. Jean, it was listed as an O-Suriage blade, c.1350 so I am basing my assumptions on the listing info. The reason I bring this to the board is that a few people have looked at this with varying opinions (which is interesting for me because I am trying to learn from this blade); what I would really like is to know what it is about the features that lead people to their conclusions. Mark, you are not the first person to guess suekoto but the first to bring up Shimada and Shitahara. A while ago I took the suekoto suggestion back to Eric but he didnt agree. Just want to say - I dont want to cause any friction by asking for people's opinions.. One of the things I find most interesting about sword study are the varying opinions about blades and how these conclusions were reached. For a beginner like me I think it is pretty vital to be exposed to differing viewpoints and the reasoning behind them. I really appreciate anything that the knowledgable people on this forum have to offer. I do not have this sword to hand so can not take more pictures sans habaki at this time - but I could do so next week if you good folks are still interested. Many thanks!

Sugata

Greetings all, I would appreciate any information people can suggest about this blade. No papers. Steel appears quite dark and hada seems fairly active and prominent... I think it is koto, I think originally a tachi. Can anyone narrow down the period, smith? Nagasa is 24 inches..