cabowen

This blade appears to be signed Bishu Osafune X mitsu (maybeeee....)

I think that is exactly what Jacques was implying- that the sword was NOT shortened and that it was all contrived to appear so.....

Top photo, cut into the blade it reads: kizo (gift) togishi (polisher) Ono Nagamitsu 寄贈　　研師　　大野永光 Not the work of someone who knew anything about Japanese swords.

EMS out of Japan seems to be ok as long as there is a direct flight to the destination country. USPS works to Japan.

James, the key words in my post regarding nihon-to as investments, are "for most"... There will always be a select few with the knowledge, funds, access, and time to root out undervalued items and profit from them on a consistent basis. For most, this is not realistic. Most will have a story or two about a great score, buying a $10,000 sword for $1000, but more frequently, ultimately, is that many learn the hard way that these outcomes are usually more about luck than anything else. There was a tv program I watched a few months ago about a guy who started with $5000 or something to see if he could buy and sell his way up from some cheap junk car to a $100,000+ sports car....Obviously he knew a lot about cars and the market and was able to get quite close. Then again, it was tv so who knows how much was contrived...Given the knowledge necessary and a lot of luck, no doubt it could happen...

This I can 10000000000000000% agree with. I do too! The former, however, will never happen. The later, a distinct possibility......

To that, add another $500-$600 or so for postage, insurance, import/export and agent fees. To restore the mounting, perhaps $1500 or so, depending on how much lacquer work there is, and if there are any missing items. I have sent items for restoration to Japan for several people who inherited their swords, telling them upfront it will cost more than the item could be sold for. To them, the sentimental value made it worthwhile. And they were in the financial position to do so...Your situation may be different... Whatever you do, please take good care of it....

I believe it was Prof. Frenzel , a professor of economics, in his monograph for an early publication of the JSS-US on the economics of sword collecting, who concluded some 30+ years ago, roughly, "for most, Japanese swords are not an appropriate investment vehicle". I don't think this has changed, except it has become even truer today. I agree wholeheartedly with Paul- there are non-financial returns to be had from the hobby and these need to be recognized as well as enjoyed. This further underscores my original point- without considerable disposable income, one is either siphoning junior's college fund or not able to play at levels above the bottom. I don't mean to sound snobby or elitist, it is just the reality currently of this hobby. Paul also brings up an important point- he is at the stage in his life when he is no longer actively adding to his collection. He is not alone. There are many at this stage now and this is the dark cloud for those on the sell side: there are huge numbers of swords sitting in collections now that in the near future will be coming to market. Fewer and fewer collectors entering coupled with a large supply can mean one thing: a great future for those looking to start a collection, but not so good for those looking to sell one....

I agree with the above. This was a nice blade and koshirae. It is in desperate need of restoration in its present state. The blade reminds me of work by the Koyama Munetsugu group from the Shinshinto period. Please take good care of it...

I am not sure what the "right" price was in your case, but I have posted lists of items for sale on this board a few times. I received dozens of inquiries for the $300 projects and they all sold immediately. I had one $4000 sword which was a signed, dated, shinshinto of the Yokoyama school with a spectacular choji hamon, no flaws, etc. I thought it would fly off the board. I think I received one or two inquiries and ended up selling it elsewhere for a few hundred dollars less than I was asking here... I have found the secret to selling swords is to simply price them at $300. At that price, there are plenty of buyers no matter what the item.... :lol: The issue isn't interest- there is plenty of interest in Japanese swords. The issue is, as I have said, that now, unlike 30 years ago, it takes more than interest to participate at a level that will create a robust market across the board. Without a major influx of people with both interest and sizable disposable income, there will be no demand for things that fall between the extremes and prices will tumble eventually.

Absolutely....Here's a beautiful katakiriba blade by Motoyasu:

I found this info regarding Motoyasu: 年紀は天明三年頃から文政四年頃まで meaning, dated works are seen from the 3rd year of Tenmei (1783) to the 4th year of Bunsei (1821). That should give you at least some idea of his life span...His work is scarce...

Bitchu no Kami is a title given (bought?) for a swordsmith. Mino is a province, Seki a city in Mino province. "... ni oite" means "at" "Kore o tsukuru" means made this.... So, Bitchu no Kami (swordsmith's name), a resident of Seki in Mino, made this....

Where did you buy it? Perhaps the seller can provide you with a literal translation of the Tanobe sensei sayagaki. Briefly, it gives a description of the sword inside- a 5 kanji mei with kiku, etc., etc....Tanba no Kami Kanemichi...

Or "2001: a Space Odyssey"...

The points made here regarding the weakness in the sword market and the dearth of new collectors entering have both been made here and elsewhere many times in the past; they were true then and are still true now. I agree with much of this, but now for some counterpoint..... There are both macro economic and micro economic factors at play. It is more than demographics. "Snap back"? To what I wonder....I have a much less optimistic view-perhaps because I have been around long enough to remember what collecting was like before the boom years. Or perhaps because I don't think technology is the fix. While easier access to information will certainly make entry into the field far less intimidating by flattening the slope of the learning curve, it doesn't really change the height of the peak in that there is still an immense body of knowledge required to digest for participation at anything other than the most basic of levels. I wish it weren't so.... Better pictures? More info? No doubt it helps but this is, in my mind, salesmanship and marketing. No doubt it will help but I don't think this is going to revitalize the hobby and get fresh blood interested. More important than easy info is cash, plain and simple. If you have lots, you don't need to know much of anything. You just walk into any number of shops in Ginza and buy whatever has a Juyo or better tag. Or, do the same on line if you prefer to shop from home. I know those who do this...Not always at the $100,000+ level, but I know many that simply collect "saijo saku" smiths, or use some other rating gleaned from some sword authority. I know a gendai collector who collects only those smiths mentioned as "the top smiths" in the rear of the Shinshinto Taikan. The golden days of Japanese sword collecting in the US occurred when the bubble economy in Japan was in full bloat. Similarly, collecting in the US has seen a rather constant withering since the bubble burst in Japan some 20+ years ago...Coincidence? I don't think so.... A variety of factors all contributed to the collecting boom in the West in the early 1980's: macro factors such as the media and entertainment which brought the martial arts and the samurai into the living room (Bruce Lee, Shogun, etc.) stimulated awareness and interest; the attention, and at first, interest in Japan that was rising like a phoenix-later to become fear as the Japanese started buying up prestige real estate and dominating industries in the West, contributed further. And, micro factors such as the huge disparity in knowledge and prices between Japan and the US which brought Japanese dealers to US sword shows, which brought waves of cash and profits to US sellers, drawing many "gun slicks" (always loved your term Peter Bleed!) and other "profit seekers" into the field. They made money. The Japanese made more money. Once that vein was mined, the profiteers have all mostly moved on to the next score. When the party ended, just after the Compton sale (talk about perfect timing), there were some serious hang overs. When the dealers from Japan quit coming, the US shows lost the straws that stirred the drink. Then the internet came along and now people could shop from home. US sword shows have never recovered to their former glory of the early 1980's when people buyers were elbow to elbow in the aisles. Several shows simply stopped. Those that are still going have turned to education and shinsa to attract people outside of the dealers and quasi-dealers. As mentioned, it is largely a group of older men, getting older, and the same swords moving around the room. It is more of a social event than anything else for many. We need sword shows as they can become excellent learning venues. As we all know, ultimately, hands-on is a requirement for real learning no matter how nice pictures might be. So, where are we now? Curiously, back to pre bubble realities I believe. Sword collecting in Japan, as I have said many times, has always been a past time for the rich- there were just many more "rich", interested buyers minted during the bubble in Japan when nationalist feelings were percolating back to the surface and money was easy and Ginza real estate was the most expensive in the world. These days, sword prices and interest in the hobby are nothing like 20 years ago and while there will always be interest in some corners, I doubt we will ever see in our lifetimes, or our children's, the boom in the hobby that was the bubble. The young in general have neither the interest nor the money. Interesting to note that in Japan they are turning to the media (recent anime tie-ins) in an effort to stimulate interest...Note that difficulties in learning and getting information is basically nonexistent for young Japanese- they simply have no interest in Jiji's toys or the money (the lost decade) to buy them. In truth, they really never did. It wasn't the young who were buying all the swords during the bubble years, it was middle aged men whose little companies started making lots of money. Of course, there were dealers like Jim Miller who took advantage of the price differences and renewed interest in Japan to make a fortune reimporting average or low grade swords bought cheaply in the US at shows and sold at Japanese prices out of a condo in Tokyo via a newsletter to a hungry, enriched middle class. Those days are past... The situation in the West whereby middle class people could own swords above their pay grade was an anomaly of history. The number of "collectors" has dwindled along with the profit opportunities. Now, the field is much more level between Japan and the US as concerns pricing and (see Tsuruta san's message) we most likely will not see the Japanese back in the US stimulating our sword market. We have, in fact, seen swords sold on consignment in the US from Japanese dealers and swords leaving Japan for greener economic pastures (China, Russia, etc.). The best one can hope for, outside of that rare undiscovered Juyo from Ebay, is a good discount when the yen/dollar is in one's favor (and it is at present). With less undiscovered gold to be found, more fakes, more scammers, more alternatives, the middle class continuing to lose ground economically, I don't see much of an influx of new collectors regardless of info accessibility and marketing efforts. We are in a global economy now. Shipping issues aside (and that is a big assumption), swords will move to where the money is. Those vibrant economies with disposable income will become players. Swords will move around the globe unlike any time since they all left Japan at the end of the war. Without interest and demand coming from these new, healthy economies, I don't think we will see anything but continued withering in the sword markets of Japan and the US. New demand will most likely come from these flush outside sources, not from the struggling young in Japan or the US. The highest level and low level will continue on. Everything in the middle, I see it floundering at best. I wouldn't be putting my children's college money into Japanese swords...As someone in Japan once said to me, "Buying Japanese swords is soooo "80's..." If you want to sell swords, I would suggest translating your web page into Chinese and Russian before worrying about the number of pixals in your photos. :lol:

Someone once told me that even the largest, strongest, most secure safe can be opened very easily and quickly....All it takes is a gun to one's head, or that of a loved one.... Dr. Hawley was robbed twice and from what I have been told, was injured in the second robbery. Good insurance is about the best protection available against a determined thief. Unless of course you can construct a Fort Knox type of defense and are willing to defend it at all costs...

Also, this hamon is shaped more like that seen in the work of Echigo no Kami Terukane/Kanesada or some of the later Tamba no Kami Kanemichi smiths. Sukehiro, Sukenao and Suketaka make a more rolling wave, rather than squarish, shallow waves with space between them....if you get my drift...

You will not see ara nie all over the ji of a work by Sukehiro, Sukenao, or Suketaka....This smith was a few ranks lower in skill than these well known smiths....

It's the early Koson kao. Not exactly the same, clearly, as the reference, but writing on a saya is not the same as on a piece of paper and there may be some variation early on as well....Buy the blade, not the sayagaki....

One good indication is to research other work by the same smith and see if it consistently shows up. It looks to me as if the smith was purposely trying to get a scattering of nie and tobiyaki over the blade. Some looks well controlled in its application, some looks a bit out of control...

銘不明　mei fumei (mei unknown) -not mumei.... 後代宝寿 kodai Hoju (later generation Hoju)

Aoi serves the mid to lower end of the market. Most well known Japanese dealers cater to the mid to high end. Aoi has long catered to the foreign market and does a great deal, perhaps most, of their business on line. Tsuruta san is a very astute business man; he doesn't have a large staff or a prestigious Ginza address. He prices his lower end swords to sell quickly and most of them go out the door in short order. Most dealers in Japan do not cater to the bottom of the market so he has little competition to start with, then low overhead. As mentioned, some base their business on low volume, high margin, top end items. A few others, including Aoi, low margin, high volume, lower end. We see the same thing in the West. As for prices of Juyo in Japan versus the US, be aware that many lower end Juyo have made their way to the US over the last 20 years, many on consignment from Japanese dealers. We can find many overpriced swords on US dealer sites-some due to unbounded optimism, others, inexperience. The "status" among many Western collectors for Juyo papered swords tends in many cases to feed the often times ambitious pricing we see on Western dealer sites. To know if a Juyo price is "reasonable" or not requires a fair bit of research into what Juyo swords by the same smith/school have sold for previously and the ability to judge where the sword under consideration stands in relation to others by the smith/school in quality, condition, length, etc. When we get to the upper mid/top end of the market, it is difficult to know if a price is reasonable or not as there are fewer and fewer substitutes and comparables; at the top, the seller can usually, within reason, set their own price and cross their fingers someone comes along before something similar pops up on the market (think Manchurian Railroad tachi for example)... The simple economics of pricing is worth keeping in mind as well- with expensive swords, there is much larger range in the price for "error". For example, with a WWII era sword, by a well known smith, it might be fairly priced at $5000. At $4000 it might go quickly as a "good" buy. At $6000, it is over priced and sits for a year or more. A top Juto may be a "good" buy at $80,000, or "overpriced" at $120,000. With all those zeros, there is a much greater fudge range- with fewer to compare it with, it is much harder to make an objective determination. Good marketing and salesmanship becomes crucial to "sell" the item for maximum dollars. We can see this at play as well on dealer sites...

That's one problem. There are others, like the fact that many Japanese authors simply repeat what came before. This tends to perpetuate errors. Like I have said, books are a great starting point but they can only take one so far.

oooooh! A mystery!