Toryu2020

Elliott et al - These same questions have been on my mind, i look forward to seeing you and Bob and talkin "Barbarian" in August. -t

Jon et al - Anyone interested in the Tampa Shinsa is free to contact me. Please visit my website for information. Jon, I will send you a PM -t

Morita san - Domo arigato gozaimasu! Thanks very much for looking and helping to identify the photo. I will be sure to change the title on this pic. -t

I'll say one thing, it looks sharp! Shrines, Temples and Museums are a mixed bag when it comes to preservation. Some don't know any better, some don't care, some cannot afford to spend much. For example the Oyama-Izumi Shrine has like 80% of the countries kokuho armour - the armour is kept in a climate controlled, acid free, low-light section separate from the other collections. The swords otoh sit out in common glass cases unloved, un-oiled and unpolished it seems for generations. Sadly I saw many swords displayed in this way, and you had ask why not care for it if it is worth showing off? It may simply be that the priest and those caring for the sword have no interest in disturbing the sword and seeing if there is a mei and wouldn't know where to look if they did. I doubt they have any hang-ups about the past associations. Morita-san has the right idea though, if enough people call and ask about the sword they might take the time to investigate... -t

Dear Ford - Very sorry If I am the one pushing you over the edge here, not my intent. I should be very sorry to lose your valuable insight from these forums as I am sure would others. You did throw down the gauntlet as it were, and as I am not a student in your forge I have no other way to learn but to posit questions. My apologies also for two examples from Samurai Shakai and one from Tsuruginoya. I get ya brother no need to respond. Can someone who is not Ford tell me what exactly it is we are looking for? A fair example of a cast tsuba that is signed and dated (in Japanese)? An unbroken unused mold? A complete koshirae with cast fittings? Authoritative writings in Japanese? I have no need to prove the point either way, I think it a very interesting question, something new to these forums for a change and I was enjoying exploring the possibilities. OTOH can anyone suggest why there would be a sudden boom in casting thousands of tsuba of poor quality, with obvious continental sensibilities in the years following the Restoration? -t

Ford - What of the "bubbly" surface of the two examples from Tsuruginoya? What about the missing pieces from the rim of the first example? Does the rounded feeling of the seppdai and other features not suggest casting? I thought these were the tell-tale signs? Thierry - Would you be willing to share photos of the rim of your very nice example? -t

http://www.samuraishokai.jp/equipment/ts036.html Not trying to start a fight here, Take a look, this is not the same tsuba but could easily be the same mold. If the Hozon Kai can appreciate these in spite of being cast, why can't we? -t

http://www.samuraishokai.jp/equipment/ts037.html So I don't know where the answer lies, but it seems clear this is where we need to be looking - Namban tsuba were very popular, they were worn by members of the Buke Many appear to have been cast (see example above) Many appear to have been manufactured before the Restoration (hence the papers) Whilst we are still looking, the ease with which an uneducated lout such as myself has finding these examples suggests a little more serious searching and we are likely to find "made in Japan" cast tsuba of the right period. Where is Dr Lissenden when you need him? -t

For your edification; http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/b00044.html Signed and papered, Iron Plate, Namban tsuba and although the maker is listed as being from Kanton he IS listed in the Kinko Jiten. Not sure if I read the listing correctly but he may also have worked in Nagasaki? Standing very close to the muzzle... -t

All - Just finished updating the site with a new article in the Archive - take note that the subject is a tsuba which I was turned on to by reading the message board - this kind of relates to the Art or Artefact thread we had a while back, would love to know if you all see my little gem as one or the other - there are other articles there as well, please take the time to check em out - there is an RSS feed for these articles and I do plan on adding more so if you like what you are reading feel free to subscribe. If you have any feedback i would love to hear it. http://www.toryu-mon.com -t

Brian- You forgot to add "and thanks for contributing to the topic Kodogu Guy!!" :D -t

All - I have always heard that Namban Tsuba were cast and having seen a few have always believed this. While some are copper there are many that are iron. In "The Namban Group of Japanese Sword Guards" by Dr John Lissenden he talks about his survey of museums and his own collection and concludes that most are in fact cast. If we accept his conclusions, most Namban tsuba were cast, most were produced between the 18th and 19th centuries and were indeed worn by members of all classes of Japanese society. I did not find the smoking gun however, a tsuba which was agreed by all to be cast and which was signed and dated and collected prior to the 19th century. It seems that such a tsuba must be out there, or we are faced with the conclusion that all or nearly all Namban tsuba were cast strictly for the export market and all those castings are in Europe or America. Dr Lissenden, FWIW, does seem to appreciate this class of tsuba on its own merits and provides some fine examples to illustrate. My references for kodogu are limited and I didn't find much else on cast tsuba in English or Japanese. An online search for Imono as suggested by Piers truns up a few examples of tsuba for sale, and some blogs concerned with similar questions we are wrestling with here. Still did not find any good articles on the subject, nor did I find that signed and dated work, that last word... -t

I wonder gentlemen if there isnt anything written about all this in the "mother tongue"? Does anyone know the term in Japanese for "Cast Tsuba"? Piers, what exactly was said to your friend? -tch (c for curious...)

Lee et al - I would ask, of all the examples that we have seen of the nokogiri on katana, tanto and wakizashi how many show wear from repeated use? How many have we seen that show repeated polishing? I think it is the idea that was attractive and not so much the actual application. Otherwise we might see many blades from the Setonaikai area with "rope-cutters" and the like. I doubt that these were were employed much if at all. They were just neat tricks an Edo period samurai could pull out to impress his friends. MHO of course... -t

Piers - Another possibility is gardening/flower arranging, imagine the idle samurai at a moon-viewing wowing all his friends by deftly cutting a sprig and presenting his guests with an impromptu centerpiece for their evenings proceedings... -t Kiyonaga more likely Shinshin-to than Niô imho

A steal at that price, congrats to whomever acquired it... -t

Andy - The signature is one of a very important smith and does not look good on first inspection. You will need to post close ups of the individual characters of the signature, you'll want strong lighting and no flash. The nakago (tang) and the horimono (carving) are also atypical of this artist (in my mind anyway). If you can do close-ups of the temper-line and grain pattern in the side metal that too will help folks answer your questions, -t

For those who are interested, Just finished loading a couple hundred more photos, please have a look if you are so inclided; http://www.toryu-mon.com Keep in mind it's "under construction" as I am still titling many of the photos... -t

Very tantalizing photos of the hamon, Jason I think you have a nice find there and a good research project. Maybe Echizen Seki or Ishido? Does not, from the photos, seem to fit Naminohira or any of the other listed Yoshimune. @Uwe - yes I would expect the mei and yasuri to be cut much more powerfully if it were Mizuta, I think the photos of the hamon rule that school out. My other thought was late Yoshimichi school but again the hamon I can see I think excludes that group as well. Jason - you really could have saved folks a lot of aggravation if you had posted all of this info from the first... -t

Phillip - No expert here but I have to agree this looks like Nagahiro or perhaps Nagafusa. The stipling on the end of the tang may be evidence of artificial aging, hard to say without the blade in hand. Given that the yasuri-mei, the file marks are takanoha or inverted V shape, I would venture that this may be an older blade by a Takada smith. What little we can see of the hamon might also suggest Seki school work (as already noted) and the Yasuri fits that area as well. If you can provide a detail photo of the other side of the tang at the butt end and perhaps one of the hamon above the habaki (ferrule) we might tell more but judgement from photos is always a guessing game... -t

Excellent! So we can see that this is a well cut mei - very likely a Shinto or Shinshinto work - is there any other info on the other side of the nakago? Do you have photos of the blade? Might help us get closer to figuring out who this guy was, that is if he was a real smith. My first guess on seeing this is Mizuta BTW... -t

Paul - You are correct, this was at the Clark Center in Hanford California. Something like a 4 hour drive from here with 6 other guys from the NCJSC. The swords were just so-so and did not photograph well. The armour made the trip well worth the effort. A very small museum but very nicely set up. -t

Jason - Good or bad we always will want to see pics, there are things all of us can learn from the image that cannot be presented in words... -t

Piers (Bug) - Why not post this in translation assistance? Perhaps Morita-san can help with this? I get "Nago-Jo something Zu" but since it is trimmed I can't be sure. I too like the idea that the true battle is only hinted at, everyone supposedly knowing Hideyoshi's story by this time so a hint is all most folks need and as suggested also gets you past the censors... -t (sorry had throw Bug in there, that just cracked me up so much)

Thank you Gentlemen - Some folks have pointed out that on some systems the photos take a minute to load - if you visit the site and click on GALLERIES give it a little time and all the albums will come up. It is "Under Construction" as I am still adding some photos and ephemera collected over the years and still in the process of titling some of the photos so do check in for updates. Cheers all, -t