Toryu2020

Brilliant stuff James! and you built a webpage already! Seems the "bug" when it bits you, it bits you at any age. Nice call on the tantô as well, nobody famous but a very solid little sword. -t

I also considered Koku-shi 刻師 there being more strokes than for Togi-shi but not knowing if it has any carvings context would make the Togi-shi the most likely suspect. Then again given how he has deformed the kanji for -Shi it could be anything -t

David - I think you'd be better off listening to Moriyama-San, this guy has an odd way with some of his characters and though i think it maybe says Togishi-shi 研師, rather than saya-shi he clearly spotted this the first time... -t

How nice to see Stephen back in true form... -t

Certainly is a curious call given what we can see, though I do believe that koshirae are submitted separately so there is one piece of evidence that we have that the shinsa team did not. I wonder Steve would you be willing to post photos of the hamon/nakago in the area of the hamachi? Not sure it will tell us anything but as I said I'm curious now... -t

Welcome aboard James! You really must tell us all about those heady days in 1960s Tokyo. The elder Inami-san and the Japan Sword Co. in that era are legend to most of us here. Looking forward to your cntributions, -t

I am not familiar enough with the swords in question to comment but I do agree that the owners are correct in seeking more information, research and other opinions by posting their questions in forums like this sharing them with sword clubs and yes submitting for other shinsa. But I would say not till you got the paper you wanted or the "best smith" , as mentioned in the first post, rather the best attribution and that requires study... -t

Well I would say the key word here is overseas, and I may be criticized because I have a dog in this hunt but I believe the way we approach shinsa here in the West is mistaken. I seem to see the roadshow model as dominant; Grab five things from your closet, don't know who made them, where they are from or how much they are worrth. Let's take em to the roadshow and see which one wins the lottery. This is a formula for disappointment, even if one of your swords turns out to be valuable. Study what you have, learn all that you can about the smith and if the blade does not convince folks that the tang is signed by your guy do not be surprised if the shina does not pass it or give it the same attribution. Take the attribution and other info and go back to the books, ask yourself what did they see that you didn't? Learn all that you can about this other school and try to prove their attribution correct. If you are not convinced then use your new found knowledge to dissect and disprove their ideas. Have the blade restored and polished to highlight the features that you think it has, a good polisher will tell you if you are on the right track. Submit a sword that they cannot see as the work of anyone else and see your study validated. Submit swords that no one is quite sure of and most likely you will see that reflected in the attribution. Nothing is more gratifying than seeing a sword, knowing in your heart what it is and removing the tsuka to see the very name you had in mind. Even more so is when you own the sword and all who see it make the same call before revealing the signature. This is the kind of collector we often see in Japan, he knows what he has and does not need the paper. But we do need papers, for validation, for insurance, for record keeping and for our families... If you get a wonky attribution you have to ask what was wonky with the sword, what did they see and how can I get them to see what I see. If study of the sword is what it is all about, shinsa is a joy. If turning a quick profit is the idea then slot machines are probably more profitable. mho -t

Fair enough - Speaking strictly of Koto blades then absent a signature the length and shape are the only indicators. In which case I would defer to the Japanese and I think we'll find that in times where the two (tachi,uchi-gatana) were used in large numbers concurrently most are designated katana. As for the funbari question, I think this also would seem to be your personal opinion since I hold that the accepted theory for the existance of funbari is just as I stated and there is no other. and since we are writing in English we are basically "misspelling" all the Japanese words anyway so I wouldn't worry about it too much... -t David, you and I and Keith may have a good grasp on the subject but all of us have an obligation to new students of the sword to dispel myth and misinformation. It is for them that we care.

Keith - With all due respect I have to say that you are wrong on several points. I will start with this; "Given that anything mounted as a tachi after the mid Edo period was not seriously intended for use on the field of battle, and was in effect either a court or dress sword, a katana style blade in a tachi mounting was adequate but not in the true sense a functional tachi." Guaranteed when a sword comes out of a scabbard it is functional, against armour or silk, and it does not matter that the saya is curving up or down.If I wear a katana on horseback am I defenseless? Though there were few major engagements after 1600 Shinto swords were used and were decidely functional. Still are. Style of usage is a factor but not the deciding factor. Absent a signature the things that make a tachi are shape, age and mounts. Absent mounts, and great age the shape can give us clues but in cases where the answer is not clear organizations like the NBTHK, and NTHK call the blade a katana. "Tachi largely as fashion" It is not clear from your post but one assumes you are speaking of Shinto period swords mounted as tachi. The mounts may have been fashion but the blades were real weapons.They did not get much use it is true but they were seen as valid weapons otherwise we would not see schools of their use preserved to this day. "Funbari" A much misused and misunderstood term. It is a spreading of the blade just at the base in the area of the habaki-moto and machi. It is a very delicate thing to see and is present on the oldest blades, including early tanto. It has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of cutting one was doing. Funbari is a hold-over trait from the earliest days of sword construction where the smith made the machi a little more robust to better weather the tempering process. I feel certain we have done this all before but think of it like this; Swords signed tachi-mei are tachi Kamakura/Nanboku-cho swords signed katana-mei are tachi ubu mumei Kamakura/Nanboku-cho swords are tachi suriage swords signed tachi-mei are tachi Osuriage mumei Kamakura/Nanboku-cho swords are katana (but one must always image them as tachi) Muromachi blades are more difficult absent all other factors a blade may be called tachi if the length and sugata suggest it but in most cases would be conservatively termed a katana If any blade was mounted as a tachi prior to 1868 it was "used" as a tachi and can correctly be called such - there is no Japanese term for a "mismounted katana". One needs to be prepared to think of these terms as addressing the blade alone and the blade when mounted. -t

Tôken is an abbreviation of the Taisho book "Katana no Kenkyu" Sôran is as you say Tôken Sôran - references where more info may be found on this smith. The parentheses quote a sayagaki 鞘書き not sure what the connection is, could Kunitada be another name this smith used, a student or is this a typo? -t

and so it is! 柊Hiiragi - thank you Moriyama-san - This narrows things down to just nine or ten families, two of which were daimyo, Ôseki and Ichihashi. Neither of which are in my copy of the Taisei Bukan... -t

and John I would call it Ôkissaki, has more to do with the placement of the yokote than overall dimensions I am thinkin. -t

Ray et al - The Kashiwa (oak leaf) was used from ancient times as a dish or wrapper for food. In Japan it was used to wrap offerings to the gods so early on it became a design motif for shinto shrines (Ise and Atsuta) and was later adopted as a mon for priestly families. There are Single leaf mon up to nine leaf, though no 6 or 7, the most common being three leaf (mitsuba) mon. Kasai Kiyoshige was rewarded with Governship of Ôshû by Yoritomo in Bunji 5 nen. At the celebration he found that 3 oak leaves had fallen into his sake cup and from this he adopted the mitsuba Kashiwa mon. The first known example of this mon being used by a member of the Buke. The Taisei Bukan of Kaei 4 lists only two lords who used the two leaf kashiwa mon but neither using both mon as seen on this saya. My little Mon dictionary list more than 25 samurai families that used this mon since it was first used in 1189. If its period the fact that you have two mon makes it much more likely that you could pin this down to a single family but without some serious reference material it is still a long shot... -t

Interesting questions coming up here, Ford - in sword appraisal the rule is that the work tells you what the signature is - this fits exactly with your ideas about the workmanship you see. However I have to ask as an artist yourself how do you explain after years of painstaking work mastering the tagane, that the horizontal lines in a signature would all be parallel in the control samples but not in the one in question. Please don't take this the wrong way but do you yourself relax and say "well the works all done, now just to put my John Hancock on it!" or do you maintain your focus and standards right up until the last stroke is cut? Certainly with variations but I am willing to say we all have habits ingrained in us by our first grade teachers that we don't even think about but that folks studying our signatures would suss out. Not challenging you personally but hoping to glean some more of that wonderful wisdom from you... -t

John! Been a long time since we have caught up. What I am seeing is just an owners catalog-ing of his own blade, may be a surrender document. Someone may have wanted his piece returned so when he surrendered it he made the sayagaki. I would check the length (sun,shaku) carefully. If it matches you would seem to have a decent example of a late generation Kanemoto but not any kind of attribution on the scabbard... -t

Looks pretty close to me, but is it Muneshige or Yoshishige -t

In fact I think as Jacques has pointed out there is greatest difference in the -Jo kanji... -t

長(さ)弐尺三寸五分 岐阜縣稲葉郡鵜沼町山崎 Naga(sa) Ni-shaku San-sun Go-bu Gifu ken Inaba-gun Unuma-chô Yamazaki Inagaki Yoshiharu owner　 Just guessing at the length as the "Ni" kanji is hard to read. Any photos of the blade? -t

寛文八年戊申五月吉辰 大久保玄番頭所持九十一歳指之 Kanbun 8 nen Tsuchinoe Saru Gogatsu Kichi Tatsu (jitsu?) Ôkubo Genbangashira Shoji Kyûjyû-issai sasu kore "Lucky Dragon day of the fifth month of the Elder brother of the Earth Monkey Eigth year of Kanbun Ôkubo Genbangashira (a) posession of, who wore this at the age of ninety-one" Nothing new above just my rendering of what I think I see on the nakago. Chris already having given us the gist. Although the Kane kanji looks like the Mino Kane, I too would like to see more photos. -t Genbangashira was a title within the Edo Bakufu usually reserved for hatamoto with salaries of 5000 koku or higher...

John - Could it be Masauji with a kao? 正氏 -t

Tsubako!

Chris - Can you post a close up of the seal? So far I have found two oshigata by this smith but none with seal. Fujishiro nor any of the other references I have checked make no mention. Fukunaga only talks about kokuin in the Shinshinto period, though we know of course tsunami were using hotstamps before that. Interesting question, - t

Clive - The Toko Zenshu lists 6 shinto period smiths using the name Munesada. Only Munesada of Hizen and Harima used Fujiwara in their signatures. I see more in common with Sukehiro in the hamon and nakago than Hizen. The Zenshu says this smith made works with ko-itame hada tempered with sugu-ha, Onotare, Omidare, Ogunome midare and Toran-ba. Still mucking about for an oshigata but feel the Harima man may be the one you're looking for. Interesting questions and thanks for sharing them. -t

Sasa no tsuyu BTW implies that this sword cuts thru targets as easily as dew falls from the young bamboo leaf (sasa) I have seen other swords with this name, never with this hori... -t