george trotter

Bazza san, thanks for the post. Great to see the spirit alive in Australia. I would have loved to have seen it but I am 3000 mile away...dang! Last (only) time I saw an archery match in Japan it was women...they shot across a steep gully with a creek running between them and the targets. Absolutely fantastic....there is something special about watching women archers...such calm faces, steely eyes, chillingly measured movements, concentrated effort and deadly accuracy! I'm sure they would have held their line against any cavalry charge. My daughter practised kyudo in Japan but had to give it up on returning here as no-one does it in Perth. I'm sure she, and me, would have enjoyed the Yabusame... Thanks again Baz, Regards

Hi all, No Steve, it is not destined for another sword, it is just for enjoyment. I see Umetada and Higo are still fighting it out here as well... :D In the above post I just showed my "Higo?" tsuba alongside a Higo tsuba pic from on-line as it is a fair example of similarity to me. The more subtle similarities/differences are too hard for me to call... so far, from what I have looked at, I do lean to Higo. If anyone has a pic or two of Umetada that also is close then please show us. Regards,

Actually, it is the katakana character for "mo" (just a sound, no meaning) used to write sounds, foreign words and names and such like. If the arsenal guy meant to strike it twice it says mo-mo...which has no meaning except that in kanji or Japanese hiragana script it would mean "peach"...as in Momotaro, the fairy tale. I think it is most likely an accounting mark as in Showa times even gendaito gunto blades are found with a katakana symbol prefixing an account number. Hope this helps (maybe post the pic in "Military Swords" (Arsenal marks).

Vern san, He might be a Seki kaji working in the Seki Gunto Assoc. that made so many showato between 1939-1945. There is a Yoshiaki listed on Jinsoo Kim's list. His details are ...real name Mishina Naoichi. He was registered as a kaji in Seki on Sho 14-10-25 (25th Oct. 1939), so your sword would be one of his early one (if it is him). Only way to be sure is to do a book/online search for Yoshiaki and Seki Yoshiaki and see if their mei match. Regards, Edit to correct: I just happened to be checking an oshigata on the database on links (Japanese Sword Index) and I remembered to check the oshigata of your guy....this Yoshiaki of yours is NOT the same guy as Mishina Yoshiaki. In fact The AKI on yours seems to be the same a "SHO" in SHOWA while the AKI in Mishina's mei is the same as "MEI" in MEIJI. So...your guy does not seem to be in the books etc that I have. Sorry,

Equally of interest, what is written on the other side Steve? Would like to see it too. regards,

Chris, I think Mr Spencer must be referring to the field grade tassel...presumably surrendered by a General (or added on by someone?). I agree, the work does not remind one of Sa. Regards,

I too like katate maki Jean...are you left handed? Regards,

Hi all, I have been reading and asking colleagues about the who? and when? of this tsuba. After all that I am faced with being half sure it is Higo and half sure it is Umetada. General feeling is later period, maybe Edo late 18th-early 19th century. All the advice here and privately also is split fairly well between these two...both opinions supported by sound reasoning....so, I am stuck on maybe Higo maybe Umetada... :lol: but I lean towards Higo a little more than Umetada as there seem to be more similarities to my untrained eye (see pic of Higo inlay tsuba as one of many examples on-line). I have been carrying it quite a whille in my pocket and it is patinating well and now has only a few larger spots of rust, so when I am happy to get out the bone, I will dress them carefully. Thanks to all for your help...here are current pics (scans).

Hi Ian, Thanks for your comments and thanks for sharing your collection. You do seem to have started at the high end...stick to quality, even if it means fewer blades in your collection (of course, there is no shame in buying an occasional "medium" blade if it appeals to you haha). Yes, I also like the RJT scheme swords. Like you I like the quality and I like the history of the times and the fact that they were made with strong patriotism and effort for use in actual battle...all part of the "real" purpose of nihonto IMHO. Your literary efforts are commendable also...I remember in my early days of collecting I made up a scrapbook of so many interesting snippets and pics and quotes about nihonto...I haven't seen the book for decades...must be buried in the shed somewhere now I think (it included dozens of copied of the Token Soc. of GB, so I really should dig it out and re-read those issues). As for not getting a strong response from the board members...well, that's life. Not everyone sees what we see and we can't all love the same thing...I'm sure though that many would quietly wish they had found your Kuniie. Keep on collecting, studying and enjoying...that's what I say Regards,

Hi Ian, It is great that you have had feedback (and invite) from Yoshindo and Yoshikazu...great provenance...I hope you print off the correspondence and put it in your sword file with the oshigata and pics...very valuable to have the descendants comments with the sword IMHO. Your other swords look interesting also...can you tell us members what they are? I'm glad this all worked out well for you...a nice find indeed! Regards, and thanks for your kind words, George

Ah, yes...that is it. Tatsu Ryugo = "Standing Ryugo"...like yours Jean. What a team of detectives we have. :D

Very interesting thread. May I ask about the length? I have only had two or three Hizen blades in hand, one by Tadahiro. From this experience only, may I say that to me, 63 cm for a shinto Kan'ei period (1624-1644) katana of Hizen Tadayoshi seems a bit short. I know we must never say never, but isn't the blade of this era "usually" about 69-74 cm? Regards,

Jean san, P.66 of Hawley-Chappelear "Mon" book shows a Ryugo (a part of a spinning wheel...probably a frame for reeling the thread). It is very similar to yours except laying horizontal (yours seems to be standing vertical). I maybe totally wrong, but maybe...? Regards,

I hope this is not condemned outright as inappropriate, but in the past, and only on gunto tsukaito, I have used a diluted liquid binding solution painted onto the ito to "lock" everything in place. It works like this...using a PVA liquid wood glue (aquadhere) greatly diluted with water (about 1:25+), i gently put the broken strands back in place and starting at the beginning of the bind and using an appropriate artists brush, I paint the ito strand from beginning to end. I DO NOT get the solution onto the same or metal parts. The solution is mostly water and although it is milky looking, it soaks into the ito and when it dries (clear), the binding is usually firm, and unlikely to fray or break any further. I usually leave it a few days to ensure total dryness. I emphasise that this is only very occasionally done on a gunto ito only. I do it because it works and because I prefer to have the original binding in place, rather than rebind. It usually darkens the ito slightly and may give it a slight sheen...but usually the result is almost invisible. Just an idea. Regards,

Dave, The first two kanji are Suetsugu, the next 3 are (I think) Reizenshi, and the last? is dai. I may be wrong. Is there any more inscription? If correct this would place the blade among the Suetsugu line of smiths in Fukuoka in Taisho-Showa. They were of the Fukuoka Ishido line I think. The Reizenshi looks like a title "cold water spring generation" or something. The best known is Suetsugu Shigemitsu and his brother Suetsugu ?mitsu. (not sure of the reading of ? Moto, Yoshi, etc etc). I once had a blade by Shigemitsu and it had a stamp on the jiri with the characters saying "shiren"? which are the kanji tsugu (I think-hard to read) and ren (as here)...so this may be a blade by Shigemitsu himself...hopefully a more knowledgeable member will comment and correct my probable errors. Or, maybe this was an early blade of one of them or a pupil...just don't know. I haven't been able to find much...sorry. Pity the blade was abused...may have been a good one.

Strange they can't read it...ShoWa yon-ju roku Ka-no-to-I nen Ju-ichi gatsu kichi nichi (Showa 46 Boar year 11th month a lucky day which is Nov. 1971). Not sure of the rest. Hope this helps,

Sorry Chris, sometimes it can't be helped, especially when unpleasant subjects intrude into decent discussion... Keep up the good work,

Hmmm...Grey, that does look to be the same mei shown in F & G #54, but I would say that it is a mis-trans of Nobu. About the lack of stamp. The use of showa and seki stamps overlapped c.1940-42. The sho stamp was first, 1938?. It was a govt. mark and the seki stamp was an Swordmakers Assoc. mark, c.1940-41? signifying that the sword met the govt standards and those of the members of the Seki Sword Assoc which was set up around 1941 to make affordable, reliable war swords. I would say that maybe the 3 swords were made before Masanobu joined into, and was registered into, the Seki Kaji group in 1941. The rare gunto tsuba and the civilian mounts (these appear to be showa) suggest these were private order, and privately mounted...one to suit a military customer and one maybe for an iai student...just guessing though. Hope this helps,

I was one of those who thought that maybe his return would be of benefit to the members...that is until I happened to re-read an old thread last night that he had got involved with....it reminded me of why we are better off without him. Sorry Lee, he was just plain nasty and destructive. Brian did the board a favour getting rid of him. With respect,

Yes, I think Masanobu also. (Watanabe Masanobu (Watanabe Seiichi) registered as a Seki kaji on April 7 1941). About the tsuba...as Dr Fox says, it is a rare type for sure as it is the sukashi gunto type but with a hole for the leather press-stud strap to pass through (the first? I have seen...unless the one Dr Fox and I discussed is the first?). Having said that, it is of no great significance, just a rare WWII fittings variation, of value/interest to militaria collectors. I don't know if this has a Seki stamp, but looks probably showato IMHO. Regards,

Hi Curtis san, Hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but I'm pretty sure Ian wasn't offended, just "exasperated" (read grumpy), that pretty simple kanji that come up almost every day, are being asked to be translated. There is "shu" and ju" and "masa" and "sada" for example, can't get much more basic than that. Glad you do try of course, but maybe you'll lower Ian's (and others) grump level if you at least put in the simple ones and show that you have got some of them at least (just a hint). Keep on trying, we all started at the beginning... Regards,

An interesting topic. I collect history and love to research history. I have been intrigued with the uniqueness of Japanese swords since I saw my uncle's WWII souvenir when I was about 7 or 8 (he told me then that he had to chase the Japanese soldier 20 miles in the PNG jungle to get it!...years later of course he told me that his squad was allocated 4 swords as souvenirs and he drew one of the 4 straws...it was gendaito, but mumei unfortunately...my cousins still have it). I still love Japanese swords and history. But, I do not "float away on the myth and legend" associated with nihonto and the samurai spirit etc...I focus on practical history and workmanship and the smith's history more than anything else. I do not feel any "cringe" about collecting, studying, discussing and enjoying nihonto...and I like the Japanese culture...we all have our interests, we can't all like-dislike the same things. BUT...I also like Western Australian Colonial (and post colonial) history and so I have (I would say) a unique collection of locally issued arms and bayonets and swords that will never be found anywhere else ...all British, but with unique local variations such as Martini-Metford mk I rifles fitted to take the P.1888 sword bayonet and the same with the Martini-Enfield Mk I & II (Herb Woodend of the Enfield Pattern Room said he's let me have the pick of his store if only I'd give him an example of the M-E for his museum as it was the only rifle they didn't keep a sample of ...I said sorry - it stays here) also a I have 2 (that's 2) P.1887 Mk II bayonets (as some will know, the rarest of the rare in British bayonets) that were among those issued here in 1897 to fit 200 Martini-Metford mk II rifles (only 198 more to find haha)...for those interested: museum.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/THE%20MARTINI-ENFIELD%20RIFLR%20IN%20WESTERN%20AUSTRALIA.pdf This and other papers I did when at the WA Museum...this period was a unique opportunity for me (I was the only one interested) as all the museum arms came to it before c.1954, so they must predate all the imports and "discoveries" in Nepal and the fakes of today. This unique knowledge allowed me to quietly collect the "real thing" after I left the museum History Dept in 1995...so, I am about to write up another paper that includes info and items that I have only discovered since I left...even the Museum does not have some of the items that I have (and vice-versa of course...but I keep lookin'!). I would also say that because my ancestors were Scottish Borderers I have an interest in Scottish weapons of the Flodden 1513 period and up to 1780 sort of period, and while I have documentation of the swords my ancestors owned, now lost, no such item has ever appeared before me here...so, that is a gap that maybe one day I will fill...if I last long enough. All I can say is..keep on collecting...and damn the torpedoes! Regards, Edit: dang...the link is a pdf but go on the site and type in the title/author and stuff should come up.

Hi Ian, Yours has the distinct "feel" to me of being a character mon (kanji mon)...either two kanji (I think) as in a name, or one kanji, maybe slightly stylised. Just my feeling. I haven't checked, but you could google character/kanji mon and something similar might come up...but you would be guessing to a certain extent, unless one came up that fits what is still visible. Good luck. As for defaced mon, I have 8 gendaito, 3 have mon, two are removed altogether...pity. Character mon are more valuable (historically speaking) IMHO as they are usually the officer's actual name, which theoretically allows you to do some research into who he may have been...as opposed to "normal" picture mon which, by WWII, could be anyone. Regards,

That was an interesting little kantei and history Chris, many thanks. I came a bit late...would have been able to pin him to the Kasama group but probably not to his teacher (I just have not seen enough of the group in hand). little of such merit surfaces here in the west (small population = small group of Pacific vets = small group of war sword souvenirs)...so that is an nice "atari" (hit) from Wah. I wish I was starting out in swords again with the knowledge and on-line access we now enjoy...oh well. One thing i notice in the texts about Masayoshi is that he produced muji...not my favourite ji, but would this have been special? such as gunto blades or such? I know he could have made gunto as he died in Tai 9 I think (about 1921)...not to divert the thread, but can you mention fittings Chris or is it in new-polish shirasaya only? Regards,

Hi Ian, Very nice. It looks great when mounted too...love the shape, sori, hamon etc...good find. I'll have a look in my Japanese books when I get some time ....my wife is rearranging the garden for winter and she needs a constant labour force on hand all day long for a week (I am the labour!)...so, I'll get to it when I can. I think Slough covers most birth-work-localities-teachers info etc, but there might be some new stuff in the Japanese texts...I'll see what I can find (maybe some members can help with this in the meantime?) That is a great find, congrats. regards,