Jussi Ekholm

It is very cool item. It is late Muromachi though, Aoi has had lots of mistakes in the few of their English item descriptions that I have looked lately.

Here is a fuchi & kashira made by him. I have at least 3 other F&K by him in books. As I am not a fittings guy I am surprised he is so highly rated as his work seem quite scarce at top level, maybe they are really rare? When going through books I thought he was just a good maker but I didn't think him in same league as makers you mentioned in OP. Of course I have never seen his work in real life so cannot say much.

The signature seems to me to be 備前国長船住景光 - Bizen kuni Osafune jū Kagemitsu, unfortunately I believe signature to be gimei (forged signature).

鯰図縁頭 - Namazu theme fuchi & kashira - Mumei 古金工 (Ko-Kinkō) 赤銅石目地 高彫 金色絵 - Shakudō ishime-ji takabori [Kin iroe??]

Would be nice to see more of the sword Robert, seems like a great find. And it is always astonishing what Ray can figure out.

康光 (右衛門尉) - Yasumitsu (Uemon no Jō)

I think it is 貞文 - Sadafumi

The ones that pop up with Google searches are not made by 1st generation Munemitsu. They are (at least on my searches) actually mid-late Muromachi period pieces. As I mentioned earlier this is so far the only surviving tachi by 1st gen Munemitsu from Kamakura period that I am aware of and it is by attribution as the mei has partially eroded. Signature on this is 備前国□□住 (Fumei) and it has been attributed to Munemitsu who was of Nagamitsu school.

Adam can you post the examples of 1st & 2nd generation mei you mentioned, and what references you are using for information on them?

There is partial fumei long signature tachi that is attributed to 1st Munemitsu at Jūyō 20. Other than that I have 0 info on 1st, 2nd or 3rd gen.

I believe they are Dha swords from Southeast Asia, Thailand, Burma etc.

I think trying to compete with others is not a good way to go in collecting. If someone just starting collecting goes to top dealer and gets a top item, that is just fantastic. I think the achievement in owning something might be that you have just personally set a goal like that. Even though you can get amazing items by top tier makers in a day (if you have the finances and in some cases connections too) as you put it, can you get the exact item you will want? As an example I have personally a quest for a blade from Hōju school, I know there are some top ones of that school that will be forever unobtainable for me, and probably in the last 10 years there might have been around 5 Hōju tachi for sale that I would really have wanted to own in my collection. Unfortunately the timing was never right for me at that time when the items were sold. Now if I just would want to own a Hōju blade there are probably 10+ items for sale in Japan at this given moment by various dealers, the thing is just that I don't really like any of the ones for sale that much. Of course I am not even in buying position at the moment, hopefully I will be when I encounter an available Hōju tachi that I like, be it 5,10 or 20 years onwards.

I think it is fun idea. Here is a 9 item collection (excluding the possible koshirae from the count) I came up with. In perfect world all items would of course be ubu. I think excluding the ōdachi and ubu naginata, the rest can be achieved fairly easily, and I left out any makers in order to make the basic format easy to see. And I am not personally yet too drawn into any specific makers, as there are so many interesting smiths and schools throughout the history. I realized it easily shows my preference of item types over specific schools. However I must say in reality I would probably cut the Muromachi trio for another earlier item but I included them to this fantasy format as I thought 9 items like this would give a nice view into different item types as well. Kamakura 1. Naginata 2. Tachi 3. Tantō Nanbokuchō 1. Naginata 2. Ōdachi 3. Ko-wakizashi Muromachi 1. Yari 2. Uchigatana (daishō koshirae) 3. Wakizashi (daishō koshirae)

Ray was super fast as usual, here is a reference sword: http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords4/KY329076.htm

I do think a lot is riding on the signature or the attribution, as all things are not equal.

I think lots of things go into Tokujū submission, those that have done it can explain things much better than I can. Darcy has written an excellent blog post on the subject. I do think in general people who will have a go at Tokujū shinsa are often people with great knowledge, and they have done the background work and are prepared for the submission. And of course the item sent in is in most cases very good. Jūyō shinsa (while quite uncommon for average collectors) is still much more relaxed compared to absolute top at Tokujū. I believe It is much lower bar to try a good quality Tokuho item for a chance to Jūyō, where as in order to to pass as Tokujū the item would need to be among the top quality of Jūyō items. Hozon & Tokubetsu Hozon are just bit "generic" as you can see by the numbers of them passing every year. Of course things are not black & white as there are still great items at just that papering level. However on the other hand there are plenty of weak Tokubetsu Hozon items too. I think here in the West we are sometimes too concerned about the level of papers, and often in discussions we bring up the NBTHK papering levels (yes I am often quilty of that too), instead of focusing on explaining the item in other ways. I know it would be convenient to but things in boxes but I think some of the boxes are too big. For example as there is about 1,500 - 2,000 swords passing Tokubetsu Hozon every year, there is lot of different swords in that yearly bunch, and some amazing items will be passing every year, along with some that will barely make it, while the majority will be everything in between those extremes. However all that I am saying must be taken with grain of salt, as what I am writing is purely theoretical. I have not yet submitted a sword into a shinsa by any organization.

As I was browsing through my Tōken Bijutsu magazines, I noticed some interesting information. I have pretty much just skipped the yearly report as I have seen it mainly as financial stuff etc. and with my limited Japanese skill is not possible to really read it, I know some info that it contains etc. but now I decided to take a closer look on some sections and I was surprised to see how much info is presented in there. I must say I have probably had bit more conservative number about yearly items, I think I have been in somewhat correct ballpark as I have done research based on paper numbers and what numbers pop up to dealer sites in Japan after shinsa. As this is public information posted on Tōken Bijutsu magazine I do think it is ok to post data I translittered to English in here. NBTHK membership is unfortunately quite rare especially outside Japan. I know many people in the west are bit suspicious about NBTHK and there has been some negativity and slander behind the scenes and out in open too. I know people often still bring up some things that happened way in the past, in order to discredit the current organization. I do believe in open discussion and exchange of information, and I do think NBTHK is doing wonderful things for our tiny hobby (as are many other smaller organizations too). Here are the numbers that NBTHK provided in their yearly report, for some reason In Jūyō results number of swords passes is 100% match but other items do not always match the actual number of items passed on results list? But here are the last 5 years of results for you to study and think about. 2019 Hozon Tōken – 7,106 submitted – 4,749 passed Hozon Tōsō – 333 submitted – 186 passed Hozon Tōsōgu – 3,764 submitted – 2,401 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōken – 3,317 submitted – 2,259 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsō – 154 submitted – 102 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsōgu – 1,062 submitted – 841 passed Jūyō 65 Tōken – 997 submitted – 101 passed Jūyō 65 Tōsō – 45 submitted – 8 passed Jūyō 65 Tōsōgu – 287 submitted – 29 passed 2018 Hozon Tōken – 7,433 submitted – 4,978 passed Hozon Tōsō – 345 submitted – 177 passed Hozon Tōsōgu – 3,408 submitted – 2,131 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōken – 3,372 submitted – 2,342 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsō – 203 submitted – 103 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsōgu – 854 submitted – 604 passed Jūyō 64 Tōken – 916 submitted – 135 passed Jūyō 64 Tōsō – 63 submitted – 7 passed Jūyō 64 Tōsōgu 296 submitted – 23 passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 25 Tōken – 342 submitted – 70 passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 25 Tōsō – 10 submitted – 2 passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 25 Tōsōgu – 41 submitted – 5 passed 2017 Hozon Tōken – 4,257 submitted – 2,880 passed Hozon Tōsō – 199 submitted – 126 passed Hozon Tōsōgu – 2,600 submitted – 1,646 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōken – 1,891 submitted – 1,287 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsō – 106 submitted – 66 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsōgu – 629 submitted – 421 passed Jūyō 63 Tōken – 753 submitted – 140 passed Jūyō 63 Tōsō – 35 submitted – 6 passed Jūyō 63 Tōsōgu – 279 submitted – 29 passed 2016 Hozon Tōken – 7,455 submitted – 4,913 passed Hozon Tōsō – 351 submitted – 196 passed Hozon Tōsōgu – 4,123 submitted – 2,753 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōken – 2,771 submitted – 1,893 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsō – 135 submitted – 89 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsōgu – 1,022 submitted – 763 passed Jūyō 62 Tōken – 875 submitted – 149 passed Jūyō 62 Tōsō – 54 submitted – 9 passed Jūyō 62 Tōsōgu – 274 submitted – 29 passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 24 Tōken – 326 submitted – 71 passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 24 Tōsō – 10 submitted – 2 passed Tokubetsu Jūyō 24 Tōsōgu – 27 submitted – 5 passed 2015 Hozon Tōken – 6,984 submitted – 4,594 passed Hozon Tōsō – 367 submitted – 218 passed Hozon Tōsōgu – 3,948 submitted – 2,613 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōken – 2,450 submitted – 1,648 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsō – 152 submitted – 107 passed Tokubetsu Hozon Tōsōgu – 940 submitted – 754 passed Jūyō 61 Tōken – 826 submitted – 165 passed Jūyō 61 Tōsō – 49 submitted – 11 passed Jūyō 61 Tōsōgu – 277 submitted – 37 passed

The signature is 陸奥会津住道長 - Mutsu Aizu jū Michinaga

I think mei is 一刀斎安綱作 - and smith Ittōsai Yasutsuna. He was born 1924 and died 1990. Here is one reference sword: http://kako.nipponto.co.jp/swords2/KT215546.htm

I remember I had posted some centimeter measurements of early long/longish kissaki but these are unfortunately not dated swords:

Ray raises very interesting points and discussion with the opening post. I do agree that it would be very important to be able to recognize the pitfalls that might trap new people entering the hobby, as they are few in number it would be good to keep as many in the hobby as we can. I do agree that we as a community should do the best we can to educate people entering this hobby but it is also a two way street as people need to be open to receiving information as well. I understand the point Ray is making about being more vocal when seeing bad and wrongly represented deals. I think it is noble act to correct the wrongs. Unfortunately I am quite neutral person and would rather only answer about those if asked. Asking advice or chatting is free and it can create relationships. I do often feel I dislike the financial part of the hobby. I think we as collectors sometimes are too fixed on what something is valued at market and we get caught up on pricing so it overrides and actual item. I think Ray wrote a good bit in another topic about "cheap for Jūyō" and you could also have "cheap for smith/school" there too, while it could be possibility that the seller has severely underpriced their item, you should also research how that particular item is within similar reference work. And yes I have been quilty of that several times, and will be in the future too. Often when browsing Japanese sites I might encounter an item that seem to be too cheap for certain attribution/attribution level. I know that I might be able to possibly make a small profit in reselling some of them, I do feel that is a risk I will not want to take as I would not have true studying or collecting purpose behind them, as that would be almost purely financial potential buy. I do must say that "commodity" items are a difficult to navigate through. There are thousands of these average swords being offered for sale all the time. You can collect the average stuff there is nothing wrong with that but I do think there should be some idea behind collecting, as I do think Ray was meaning with envisaging the journey. There are lots and lots of interesting mid-level items but you need to find items you have interest in and reasoning why you are interested in them. One problem is if you don't do your research first and buying is so easy in todays world if you have money, you are jumping in the water and letting sellers help you out, so it will be extremely important to know who to trust. I think Ray is trying to make sure newcomers or even experienced collectors don't get taken advantage of in the process. There is almost "endless" supply of low-mid tier commodity items and someone is making profit in every sale and majority of times it is not the buyer... As for books, I cannot really say how I feel about recommending them to new collectors. I am a sword book collector and my books surpass my swords by large. I would agree what Thomas is saying that seeing swords in person is good for newcomers (well good for everyone), then after a bit if collecting interest is still going strong you can start to get deeper and deeper into the hobby and hopefully find a direction you wish to pursue.

@sabiji The sword itself does not change while passing Jūyō shinsa but its valuation might change. In overall average Jūyō will be much more valuable than average Tokubetsu Hozon. Many of the dealers target the buyers desire to be smartest and beat dealers in their own game. You'll see varying amounts of hype depending on who you deal with. And I do think there are lots of people buying in this range and above that maybe do not have enough knowledge yet. As Ray hinted above an attribution to Katayama Ichimonji is pretty much a pass to Tokubetsu Hozon if it is at least in decent condition and you will send it. For example I think I have c.40 mumei Katayama Ichimonji tracked down. 1 Hozon - 4 Tokubetsu Hozon and rest are all Jūyō & above. And the only Hozon papered one I have tracked might very well have passed onwards to Tokubetsu Hozon if the next owner had chosen to send it, as I feel it should pass to TH, nice and wide suriage sword. Personally I like naoshi that Matt has regardless of the papers it has as I like the shape it has. The one at Aoi doesn't feel like special to me when I just look at the shape. Shape and initial feeling of the sword is my 1st priority at the moment. I think I could not own a sword which would have a shape that I don't like, even if it was a masterpiece. Also I agree what Thomas is saying about Kinjū there above, I feel that Kinjū & Kaneyuki are really underappreciated in general.

I think the biggest issue when trying to find dated examples so far back in history is the scarcity of items. I believe I have gone through most of the highly regarded remaining Japanese swords (of course I'll keep making new finds previously unknown to me and new items pop up too with new shinsa), and I just counted and I was able to find in total only 38 dated tachi that have pre-1300 dating. I might have accidentally skipped one or two when trying quickly to find them but that is miniscule database and you cannot make too general conclusions from that. Signed and dated swords (that are confirmed by expert opinions) have the upside of eliminating uncertainity. While I do have extremely high amount of confidence in Japanese experts, mumei swords always leave some leeway. I might have told sometime earlier that when visiting Tokyo National Museum in 2017 they had a very big and wide sword on display during exhibition (I visited twice during my stay but they had rotated the exhibition items during that and I couldn't check the info of it accurately, as I was overwhelmed seeing so many awesome items on my first time visiting there), of course I immidiately thought that is an obvious Nanbokuchō shape, and felt good about my guess. I was shocked that it was actually Heian period Ko-Bizen sword. Unfortunately I don't have any pics of the item, and I haven't yet been able to track it down. I just remember it so well as I was confident in my guess across the room but got totally humbled.

I do remember that sword Matt and I remember you mentioning the Jūyō pass in the forum too. I think you got a good blade as I do believe the pictures were more "honest" (I do believe Aoi is known to doctor pics in their favour as many dealers do) when you bought it, and sword having 2018 Tokubetsu Hozon papers. Would love to see it after polish too.

I do have few examples of dated ōdachi from Kamakura period but unfortunately I lack pictures of their kissaki, so I cannot comment on those. I believe this ōdachi by Bizen smith Kunizane that is preserved in Itsukushima-jinja might be among the earliest remaining. Unfortunately I lack many measurements of the sword but long kissaki can be seen in the picture. The sword is designated Jūyō Bunkazai and it is 106,6 cm in blade length with 5,9 cm curvature. Koshirae is 181,5 cm. The sword is most likely from late Kamakura period.