Bruce Pennington

Your flumox-ation is vexing! Ha! You're going to use that new word every chance you get, aren't you?! I am certain that I'm uncertain about this one.

I find this one interesting, in that it shows the square shape of the steel stamp the "Na" is on. Found HERE.

Gwyn, I agree with you on the box and note. That's far more elaborate than normal fakers would do. To get to your question, though, a Mantetsu will fetch at least $1,000 more than an average IJA gunto. I don't have a good feel for the post-COVID market now, but before COVID they were going for $2,600-3,600 USD.

Thanks Leen. The Nan doesn't show up until 1943, so yours wouldn't have had one anyway. I've posted the box and cloth over on Warrelics. Let's see if anyone has any thoughts on them, either way. One of the problems I have with a few of these is that they are being sold on commission by Komonjo from someone in Japan. And 2 of those had serial numbers within 4 digits of each other (1941 Ka 228 and Ka 232). I know that happens in Collector-World but just seems too coincidental, and both are wavy hamon. And all of them showing up in ... what ... the past year or so? I'm keeping on open mind.

I wish we had someone that knew these boxes. Might run the box and cloth by Nick to see what he thinks. The cloth, to me, looks like it has age. He's commented on authenticity of items like this before.

Yeah, I have to back-track on my statement about them normally being stamped. I've surveyed the 22 Nan's and while they are done so well that from a glance, they look stamped, the are actually chiseled (or whatever tool they do that with) in. Here is a comparison. The fake is in the center. Can't say and "always" on this, but the legit ones seem to cut the side lines bottom-up so the pointy end joins at the "shoulder" giving it a rounded look. The fake started at the top of the shoulders. Also, the file lines on the legit blades seem fatter. I have 5 of these (6 now) on file, all dated: 1940, 1941x2, 1942, 1944. The '44 has no serial number either. One has a Colonel attribution, and one a Lt Gen. We've previously done a "kantei" on these fakes and are bothered by the mei differences (though all quite close). And like I mentioned earlier, NONE of our Nan-stamped blades are Koa Isshin. I'm adding this one to the file. Who knows, someday we may find a document or letter describing their custom Mantetsu. But until then, the scales tilt toward fakery.

I would be interested to learn what is written on the box as well.

Alex, get both the serial number on the back and a photo of the date. If they don’t lineup correctly we know it’s a fake. However, I’ve seen two of these and they had an appropriate serial number for the year. So if they are fakes, they’re smart enough to know how to date them to match the serial number. But let’s try to find out shall we? This is the fourth one I’ve seen now, but it is a bit unique with the “Ren” stamp. I will have to check my records but I’m pretty darn sure that there are no Ren stamps on Koa Isshin blades. I am on the road, but will check when I get home. They may have finally made a fatal mistake. Plus, the Ren stamp looks hand chiseled and not a stamp at all. It should be a stamp.

They were selling for US$3600 before Covid hit. So this is a really good price. Love the look of this one Neil.

Found a Star-stamped Kiyokatsu, 1943, number 86, but no katakana. Don’t know what to think about that. I am finding blades by these guys with no numbers, with numbers but no katakana, and with katakana and numbers. Regardless of what that means, if the katakana that do show up seem to be from particular areas, then we still have something to work with. haven’t finished the Kiyokatsu search. edit: finished, no luck in him. @george trotter if you can give me some names from one of the other provinces I’ll run a search on them.

The life of the large Seki stamp just extended into 1944! Found this 1944 Kanemori with a large Seki stamp e-sword.jp/sale That just shows that the use tapered off rather than dropped dead.

Mark, Any chance the nakago has numbers stamped on the end of it? If so, could we get clear pictures of it and both sides of the nakago? Is it star-stamped?

George, I can't make out the number on this. Do we have this one already, and is this a Sadaroku? Edit: Never mind! Found it on another post - It's a Feb '44 Sadaroku, タ2383

Got my first hit: Sadaroku, 1943, Ta 1361; fittings not shown but only 1 mekugi ana; thread by our own @vajo So 3 in the Niigata area with the same katakana. Like much of this kind of work, I went through several Sadaroku with no numbers at all, but the few I've seen like that were dated earlier than '43. I haven't finished the search on him yet. Edit: Make that 4: Feb '44 Sadaroku, タ2383. Update: No luck on numbered blades for Sadakiyo and Yoshimitsu

Chris, is this in Type 98 fittings? Just wanting to know for the files. Thanks!

Maybe I'm missing something? "grades" as in "company grade" and "field grade" are officer terms. Company grad is Lt - Capt; Field grade is Major - Colonel.

Thanks George. That will give me plenty to search for, for now. One thing I just realized is that these katakana stamped numbers only show up in 1943 and '44, with most of them, currently, in '44. So that will really reduce the pool of blades to find others. Well, off to the searches.

Good work yourself, George! Thanks for looking into it. I'll start thinking up ways to search for these. Since they seem to be on RJT blades, a search of known RJT smiths by name might be a place to start. Maybe if you could give me a name or 2 of other RJT smiths in the same area as the single ones we already have?

Loved the whole video, thanks Geraint!

Thanks Trystan, I have the first one, but not the second. It's perfect, thanks!

Looking for a good, clear, photo of an intact "Na" of Nagoya Arsenal from an officer blade nakago. I have plenty from Type 95s and I have several partial Na's from officer blades. I do have 1 intact Na, but the image is small and blurry. Any help guys?

Lots of useful info on that page that can be found, in spite of Google translation errors. One section seems to re-state the info we've discovered from the Seki City website. They must have used the same source. He mentions 4 organizations that I hope to probe a bit more, but essentially, the Seki sword industry was learning to make swords faster and doubled their production ability over time. Thomas found a line in Ohmura's discussion that seems to indicate not all blades were inspected, which could mean that gendaito weren't inspected, just showato. The only thing I still wonder about is his claim that the Showa stamp came about when the Army (Nagoya Army Arsenal) started using the Seki stamp. Because, the survey data currently indicates just the opposite.

You know, most of those charts don’t need location information for the Smiths, as each stamp pretty much shows where the Smith was working. If a guy was going to try it, I would just focus on the charts of stamped numbers with emphasis on the numbers that have katakana.

To your original question, I know it was discussed with Nick Komiya at Warrelics, but I cannot find the thread. Maybe @Kiipu or @BANGBANGSAN can give you the English pronunciation of the Japanese term for tassel.