Shamsy

Ah... it's not quite what I'd thought. The saya cover is the same but the saya different. Still interesting, so thank you.

SoIhave a little more to offer after all! A lovely example of a wakizashi length Kai-Gunto and I'll add those saya covers must have been standard design as the third sword in the pic I attached is basically identical but for the presence of a button as opposed to push fit. There is one in the Byars collection with the same cover to, but that's distinctly late war. Therefore I wonder if that was an economic measure since field saya are far easier to produce? It's impossible really to say why it's shorter but probably for aircraft or submarine use. As already stated, unless you know exactly where it came from and trust that story, you're only guessing!

Simply put, Mr Dawson is stating that a fair few of the so called crew gunto are in fact shortened gunto meant to deceive collector's. Now, I'll add that there are plenty of exceptions to the rule when it comes to military swords, so I'm sure there will be examples that don't meet the criteria, but cannot hurt to be aware. Because Hamish's sword is in custom mounts, there is little to no doubting authenticity. There are also plenty of waks mounted for use, but these were often in adapted military mounts or even full size ones. Here is a picture of a crew Kai-Gunto showing clearly the comparatively thin tsuka when compared to standard Kai-Gunto. Also, as Brian said, you could get anything mounted. I don't think it's easy then to define a crew gunto and calling it crew refers to use as opposed to style. Unless you know exactly where it was claimed, you're probably guessing at the crew part. If you disagree with Mr Dawson, by all means please do. F&G have been shown to be incorrect or outdated. I've offered about all I have to contribute so I'll call it a day on this topic.

Can you confirm Hamish that the width of the tsuka is less than the standard gunto tsuka? It's hard to tell from photos, but it should be narrower. Less length and width.

Yes, bearing a crew gunto was a choice and nothing to do with regulation (which there is no debate needed regarding how lax that was). Indeed, I'm sure some traditionally minded officers no doubt thought anything less than a full length sword was insufficient.

Dave, you are very much on track sir! There seems to be some confusion about this subject. There is a difference between a wakizashi mounted for military use and a crew gunto. Wakizashi mounted are actually not uncommon. They aren't usually much shorter than a standard gunto. While they excessively get called a crew gunto by enterprising merchants, I don't think a sword should necessarily be deserving of that term unless it is closer to tanto length and at least the tsuka smaller in dimension than a regular gunto. I have a nice Kai-Gunto from a pilot and other than a standard sized tsuba, the entire sword is 'miniturised'. I spoke to Jim Dawson about the subject so I'll share that with you. "Pilot swords were few and far between -- and still are... A photo of the two side by side showing the difference in handle size would be interesting. Your sword IS properly scaled, but I often see collector's pay too much for cut off gunto in shortened scabbard. The give-away is that the handles are the same size as standard gunto." So there is a reasonably simple way to ascertain the difference between a crew gunto and a Wak mounted for the military use. I'm sure there will be many cries of disagreement (probably some from former 'crew' owners where money or pride is involved), but the easiest way to differentiate the pair is the tsuka. My aim is not to offend or get into an argument, this is a site for learning after all.

Ah.... take me off the list then! As much as I love original, not at a unreasonable cost.

Please add me for a pair if they are for sale (I'll take 2 or even 3 pair but will see who else needs some rather than be greedy).

It would be the greatest shame if someone were to polish or alter the blade, all to try and satisfy their idea of making it 'better'.

I could not make the call after seeing the sword for a few minutes. I would need to carefully consider it over a month or two. I try to avoid impulsive decisions and it's saved me many times. For the fun of it though, at this precise moment it wouldn't worry me. Looks like a beautiful sword and very worthy of proper appreciation and preservation. Clearly several owners have also been of like mind.

Thank you Ken, that's good to know from a first hand source. Most of what I've said is based off the opinions of others that I am interpreting through books. I cannot stress that enough.I don't have the experience to offer an informed opinion but I wished to at least ensure that gendaito were mentioned and in people's thoughts. They don't often seem to receive much discussion but there are some exceptional swords made in the 'modern' age. Furthermore I hoped to generate some discussion around the technical aspects of sword smithing, as leaving it to a purely subjective assessment of taste doesn't IMHO offer as much learning and deep though. It's easy to say which you like, but it's better to know the why (style, activity, innovation, jigane etc). What I said about keeping it to golden ages or golden smiths seems to ring true (at least sentiment is echoed), so I'm going to step back as I think I've about reached what little I can add to the discussion. Please continue though, it's really a very complex and interesting topic.

It may just be missing the brass throat cover but yes, likely a replacement saya I'd guess (though probably original to the sword).

A very interesting topic and one I'm thoroughly unqualified to make comment on. I've been doing a lot of reading lately and I will add a few points that appeared in the gendaito books... This will probably rattle a few cages but here we go. I'd like to add these are what I gather from OTHER people's opinions and are not my own. I've not got the experience to make that call: It has been noted that the tamahagane produced today is far purer and undergoes better quality control than any other time in history Modern smiths seem to be able to develop new and indeed improve on hamon and jihada from the past We have a better understanding of the technology of sword smithing than ever before Relating to the first point, some of the old aesthetic aspects of swords are likely created by impurities and are not by design Age alters jigane so is it fair to judge an old sword to new? I will add from my own opinion that there will be masterpieces from all periods of time so perhaps it would be wiser to say there were golden smiths as opposed to golden age? Likewise, it is difficult to judge past art based on a modern viewpoint. Frankly the Egyptian paintings are out of scale, 2d and crude, and we could make something much better nowadays. But that in no way diminishes the skill we perceive from the artists. A tricky topic indeed.

Please don't misunderstand me, I to find it interesting, different and would like to know the why's around its creation and use. I just happened to think it's rather unappealing to look at. No one seemed to have that opinion and I was curious to see if I was alone on that. There have been a few interesting points made and I couldn't agree more that it's a unique piece what would be a great conversation starter. From this thread, it has already demonstrated that.

Personally I like a fairly deep sori in a sword, but am I alone in finding this fairly extreme example quite ugly? Interesting yes, but ugly.

Credit cards are simple and usually have a low conversation fee (mine does anyway). There can be other fees to, but all up they're so very much lower than paypal in my experience.

Good evening all, Raising the dead here... Not the same sword but the same smith. Brians last post made me wonder so I've done my best to get some photos. I would have discounted the sword as showato and still have that option, but having installed new lighting (2,000 lumen LED!) I'm seeing a couple of differences between the hamon on this sword and other showato I have. Where it all looked like a single, dull white hamon before, I can easily see that it is actually two distinct parts. A duller lower half of nioi, then a sharper, whiter line running along the crest of the hamon. I can't really make out individual particles so I'd go with nioi demi. The photos were really hard to take, but I had a go. It is far easierto see the distinct patterns in hand of course. So since this is the only site and thread discussing the smith I could find, what do you think?

It looks like a Muckden stamp, except the circle is too small? These are referenced in F&G and I remember reading that they stamped on the blade above habaki (cannot remember where).

Canceled because the bid was too low?

Modern Japanese Swords and Swordsmiths mentions that showato produced with European made railway track and steel bar stock from Sweden had patterns resembling jihad a and this could be made to look like a traditional forging. Repeated heating and quenching produced a pattern few could differentiate from a traditional sword. The author then continues to say that because of the inability to distinguish top showato and traditional blades, the stamping system was introduced, First in Gifu, then on a national level in 1940. Of course it's been hotly debated if all stamps indicate showato. From chatting to Joe it seems to have been confirmed star and tan stamps are true nihonto. Thus the author may not be correct in such a blanket assessment.

My bad then. I don't follow the for sale carefully because it saves me from temptation. ... Good luck with your sale!

I'm a little surprised you didn't post this in the for sale section first and avoid all the fees. Unless you did and I'm blind!

That's a shame, those gendi books would have been a perfect start, but a perfectly understandable position. Please keep me in mind if the deal doesn't go through.

Removing the patina and perhaps best proof of genuine age and use. Equivalent to stripping the original red paint off an old Ferrari 275 GTB because you'd like to paint it boy racer green. Only my opinion of course! If you still wanted to do a little cleaning, a soft bristles toothbrush would probably do it.

Just a matter of using the wrong electronics. I tried on PC (it coughed and wheezed but worked). Cheers Brian