Jean

I agree with Carlo, at the level of the notch, nakago seems to slightly cave in. Yasurime are kiri, indicating either SHINTO or Suriage Koto, dark steel, could be koto end of Nambokucho beginning Muromachi suriage blade. Nioi deki will lead to Mino/Bizen rather Mino from the hada.

Ok I am ready to post the prizes :D :D :D

Hi Jacques, Read carefully what is written : . The article provided proves at 100% that I am right - There is none mentioned Now, there may be some exception for Bishu Osafune Ju» very scarce compare to the others but not made to order blades with personal blades. But as you are a specialist of references, please I encourage you (and NMB members) to list in the article the number of mei mentioned beginning by "Bizen koku ju osafune" and "Bizen koku Osafune Ju ...." (0) or "Bishu Osafune Ju....) - In all Kaji listed I have not seen the mei "Bishu Osafune Ju ..." but one - listed only in Hawley (Hyoe no jo kiyomitsu) Page 28 of the article there is an exhibition with no blade mei beginning by "Bizen kuni Osafune Ju» .." Now I am curious to know how many shoshin papered Sue Bizen blades NMB members have come across bearing the mei "Bizen Kuni Osafune Ju» ..." and How many bearing the "Bizen kuni Ju» Osafune ..." Only thing I can say is that Honma Junji in "his short life" has never seen a Shoshin mei (in Sue Bizen) beginning by "Bizen Koku Osafune Ju ...". We have a saying in French "Exception creates the rule"

Foreword : Everything I shall state in this topic is about Sue Bizen Blades starting from 1466 till Momoyama and is under my own responsibility Thank you for your feedback Brian. Considering the topic, I don't know the seller but my attention was drawn by the "Mei+NTHK kanteisho" (mentioned in the text but not pictured as in all the other Seller auctions where the Kanteisho is pictured). I must confess (for the first time in NMB) I am going to be very direct : In sue Bizen, this statement is totally false : All NMB members can remember having seen hundred times the mei : Bishu Osafune So and So (some of them are on Aoi-Art - whatever we think of this website - Tsuruta san states " he never mentionned the "Jyu") they are the most frequent : {C}http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/06222.html{C} Who remember Bishu Osafune "Jyu" Sukesada (no advertisins meant :lol:)? Best swords were signed (in Sue Bizen) in the following syntax : "Bizen Koku Ju Osafune Jurozaemon (No) Jo Harumitsu Saku." Notice the place of Ju› in this mei (before Osafune) and not as stated by the seller The Bizen Part of the Nihon To Koza was written by KOIZUMI HISAO and was revised and enlarged by HONMA JUNJI - It closes the controverse I won't say that it does not exist Sue Bizen blades signed "Bizen Koku Osafune Ju» ..." but they must be as frequent as the Juyo Bishu Osafune ones (It exist one - thanks Darcy) MY ADVICE : NEVER BUY A SUE BIZEN BLADE SIGNED WITH THE "Ju›" AFTER "OSAFUNE" UNTIL PAPERED AND A RETURN POLICY OR YOU WILL BUY A GIMEI (AT 99%). Now for those who are skeptical: Please read Sue Koto : Japanese Swords of the 15th & 16th Centuries - Volume 2 - Bizen school - List the mei beginning as the Seller states "Bizen Koku Osafune Ju ..." (BTW Sukemitsu p151 - ) Some Sukemitsu blades are combined of Mokume and flowing itame but itame-masame For those who wonder why such an outburst, I shall confess : my first buy was a Gimei "Bizen Kuni Osafune Ju ...." I speak by experience :rofl: :laughabove: I think Darcy or Gordon could say some words about the syntax [/b]

Jacques, I perfectly understood your answer (and agree with you) but you are off topic. Here is the topic and I would like your opinion and the NMB members one :

Jacques, In the case I mentionned, the problem is that we have a Sue Bizen sword signed : "bizen koku osafune jyu sukemitsu saku" - The "jyu" is misplaced at the opposite of your example where it is stated that the blade had a careful gimei inscription. In my example, the problem lies in the syntax of the mei and the place of the "jyu". Has any other NMB members encounter a certified blade (sue bizen) beginning by "Bizen kuni Osafune "Jyu" ...? For the ones who interested in this mei (key point for gimei), here is an extract of the Nihonto Koza (AFU translation - Koto I) page 366 - last paragraph (It is quote of a quote)

So, to NMB's members still alive or awake, what do do you think of it?

Hi Jacques, You missed the point. The problem lies in the position of "Jyu". Nihonto Koza and experts state that, in Sue Bizen, if in the mei, "Jyu" is after Osafune = Gimei " Bizen kuni Osafune "Jyu" ...." = Gimei "Bizen Kuni "Jyu" Osafune ......" = Shoshin mei Here is one example of a good Sue Bizen mei : http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/07192.html

Going through e-bay auction I have found this one : http://cgi.ebay.com/K-Japanese-SWORD-BI ... dZViewItem Questions : - Has anybody dealt with this seller before? (reliable or not) - There 9 bids - NTHK Kanteisho (not pictured) - What do you think of the mei? I f you have a look to the Nihonto Koza - Sue Bizen - (from memory I shall quote) : All sue Bizen blades I have seen with the following signature : "Bizen Kuni Osafune Jyu ..." were gimei The atypical Sue Bizen mei being : Bizen kuni/koku Jyu Osafune ..." I am probably wrong taken into account the positive feedbacks on this seller, the fact there are already 9 bidders and that it is probably the classical exception to the rule. Another auction from the same seller and this tsuka reminds me of another discussion "The same was repaired" : http://cgi.ebay.com/K-Japanese-NAGINATA ... dZViewItem

Hi Tim, It is dated Kwansei san nen ni gatsu hi (February 1791) It looks sudareba - It would be 7th generation Yoshimichi - YOS 402 Taikan : S 94 Being at work I have no other references to compare the mei

Brian, That's very undiplomatic of you

I thought at first of a sansaku yari, but it is not as both sides are symetrical http://web.mac.com/mariuszk/iWeb/Site/ken.html Here is a yari with a similar shape : http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/yari/4sword05.html http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/yari/4sword10.html Have alook at the base of this one : http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/yari/04053.html I really don't know what to think .... Could be a ken ...

Just a precision : Shira Keru is a main kantei for Enju swords but for the first smiths generation who remain very close to Rai style, other kantei points have been already mentioned , kaeri, boshi ... You will see on Aoi Art website in the Sale section a Juyo Enju, with some kantei points which are pointed out . It is an early Enju sword and there is no Shira Keru. As in some schools (Naoe Shizu ..), the quality of Kamakura Enju smiths is very high and homogeneous so it is very difficult to have a particular smith pinpointed in a kantei. On Nihonto Andy Quirt site (Nihonto.us), there is a Yamato Kaneuji Juyo blade and a letter from Homma Junji Sensei discussing this sword and the difficulty of kantei (last paragraph).....

Hi Jacques, All the blades I buy are papered (at hozon - to confirm an attribution), then I ask to see if Tanobe sensei agrees to put a sayagaki on the shirasaya. He was very pleased with this one (so Zenon), He states in his sayagaki that the blade is late Kamakura. I would placed early 14th century as the famous Enju Shira Keru (turbid white Hada) is not present - Very/Very Raï looking.

Talking about healthiness of kamakura blades, I must confess there are a lot of swords incredibly healthy - and shame on us, we , European, have not the equivalent. Here are some shots of my Kamakura Enju

Hi Dino, There are different sayagakis done by Tanobe sensei : What is very important is the second column (under the attribution). If if it is splitted into columns, it may mean that the sword is (probably) TH level. One column means not much consideration toward the sword. It may not be universal but a good hint. (Unfortunately I know it by experience). You will find all the data needed about Mino kajis (for English readers - sorry, I'm not one :lol: :lol: _ in the Mino-To by M.E. Cox) It is a very cheap book for the data amount it gives. (Mike, you don't owe me any thing - It is a splendid book!!!!

Brian, Ichi has written : I am not going to bet but I am sure that by some mischief (world is full of bad guys), some NMB members will call you : "Brian the Brain" - Witty isn't it

May I join Everybody to thank Nobody (I could not help it and rather do it before Milt- :lol: :lol: ) for his kindness and competency - I do not forget his humour. As I stated before : I am sad to tell all NMB Members that Providence has just died from starvation. Now, Could these Merry Christmas greetings ante diem be an attempt to shorten the Raffle Happening issue??? The suspicious Frog

Steve, Interesting sword : "TSUKA IS EDO ERA ORIGINAL FOR THE BLADE, SAME WAS RESTORED. FUCHI, KASHIRA IS SHAKUDO EDO ERA HIGH GRADE WITH FU-DOGS" He must have wholesale prices on this kind of Tsuka (included Same, F/K, shishi). BTW, I have a project : mounting my Naoe Shizu katana. Once done, within 3/4 months, I shall post some pictures

The blade is probably Kozori school

Stephen, I hate to say it but in the katana section there are two mumei swords that have been BUNGOED. That's for Milt :D :D :D :D

Hi Dino, I am not very good at kanji but Tanobe sensei sayagaki are generally alike : From top to bottom : - Bizen Osafune Yoshimitsu -two columns side by side : comment on the sword - Nagasa : I let you decipher it, it is an easy one - Date on which Tanobe has made the sayagaki and entered it in its record + signature By the way, probably your sword is not far from 1450 Here is a picture of my wak Yoshimitsu kanteisho dtd Kosho

Mine are in Shirasaya (but for two) and I never oil them. I have been keeping them for years without any problem. In Paris, it is not necessary to have them oiled, so no need of uchiko ....

Hi Jacques, This was exactly what I was implying. The problem is that we do not have a closeup picture of the junction of the hamon and the boshi. Nevertheless, there is one picture (picture 7) where can see the hamon entering the kissaki straight forward almost till its edge. Now, the real tell tale is the hi and where it stops, Here is the Kissaki of my Enju Kamakura katana to compare with