Jean

Foxy Reinhard has written : Steve, Perhaps also a few questions : Why this horizontal line just above the mei? Henceforth, from the left picture why this colour difference between the upper and the lower part of this line? Why different yasuri-me between the upper and the lower part of this line? Why is the shinogii line crisp above this line and rather erased under?

Worksheet : http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/swrdinv.htm

Thanks a lot guys that's what I thought. Unfortunately, few of NMB members are lucky enough to live in Japan, in France, we have no Japanese sword/kodogu shows, sword market is so narrow .... Some dealer shops, scarce, with very few blades (most of them of middle quality). From time to time, public auctions with fair blades (most of them to be restrored) .... Since January, nada ...

No, I had the problem with Fine Sword (their subsidiary) and I mailed to Ginza, the problem was solved in a cuple of days. They even apologized for their subsidiary not giving anuyanswer to my mail.

Thanks for the answer Guido. I have already bought 3 swords from Tsuruta-san (Nio, Enju, Bizen) and he has attractive blades at very competitive prices. He is a very decent fellow to deal with and being used to Westerners behavior, if the sword is not on consignment you can get a 10% discount. In fact I trust him in his judgment. The three questions to ask Tsuruta-san are : - Do you recommend this sword? If he says yes, then carry on, if he says neither yes or no (he will never says no but send a biaised answer) then skip it - Are there any kizu not mentionned in the description? He shall list them all and even take pictures. - Is it possible to get Tanobe sensei sayagaki? If he says yes and Tanobe sensei performs it, you are assured that the blades are of fine qualities. It is worth all kanteisho. If tanobe sensei declines the sayagaki, your sword is not TH level ... Prices generally not only reflect blades quality but fashion (Have you noticed that some smiths are much in vogue - Hizen - Koyama Munetsugu, Ishido Korekazu ....) and that some of their TH blades sell at higher prices than some Juyos?

Ichi, Guido, Moriyama san ... In your opinion which is the best on-line shop (in terms of quality:price)?

Thanks Guido that's what I thought furthermore it is impossible to discuss prices, they answer with a flat refusal

Hi Ichi, Guido, Of course you are right and I am sure (with my poor kanji knowledge) that if I have a problem in translating I shall have all needed help from you. :D :D Now, as France is not a reference for sword market, this company's swords/kodogu/Tosogu seem quite outstanding in quality. How would you compare the quality in regards to quoted price?

Thanks Ichi, I have already checked all issues :lol: :lol:

Hi Ichi, Thanks for the information. Does it mean when you subscribe you get the English version?

In fact, If I have quoted Aoi Art, it is because It was handy Nihonto.com, comments from Fred : http://www.nihonto.com/7.1.07.html http://www.nihonto.com/9.2.07.html

Hi Stephen, Don't worry, it is not kazu-uchi mono as to implement a mass production, it takes some times. The phenomenom has been slowly increasing along the years and I entirely agree with Carlo' post. My friend,IMHO, Your blade being dated and having original hi you have no problem at all. In fact, I think that Hi are very time consuming and are not in line with kazu-uchi mono blades concepts. Furthermore your blade is dated which was current with Eiko Bizen blades (I have a Bishu Osafune Yoshimitsu wak dated 1455). Paul, As I am at work, I cannot search in my documentation, but have a look at the Nihonto Koza Sue Bizen (Only 2 pages for this period ... before describing some lineage (Sukesada, Kiyomitsu, Tadamitsu..) Paul, that is a very big shortcut, we are only talking of Warring states blades beginning with "Bishu Osafune ..." My list of questions is longer : Not all blades beginning by "Bisho Osafune ..." in this period were Kazu-uchi mono because one of them is Juyo but Nihontai is always full of exceptions, but most of them were. As so far, I have no answers to my question list on "Bishu Osafune " blades : Why inscribe a nengo on a kazu-uchi mono blade? Why bother to carve a hi on a kazu-uchi mono blade? Kazu-uchi mono have probably varied in length following the trend I am sure some NMB members must have the answers in their documentation (Japanese sources) http://www.touken.or.jp/english/nihon_koto_shi/(41)%20No.596.htm http://www.hayashibara-museumofart.jp/m ... 0Bizen.pdf http://www.nihonto.com/9.2.07.html

I have read this statement on Aoi-Art website : First the link : http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/07557.html Then statement : Is this statement relevant or not? When did start, thrive Kazu-uchi mono production during the warring states period? Tai-Ei? Can we say that a Bishu Osafune mei with a nengo is a Kazu-uchi mono? http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/06222.html Can we say that a Bishu Osafune mei + original hi is a Kazu-uchi mono? Where do stand niji mei blades (taking into account that I have seen blades with nijimei Tokubetsu Hozon)? Is there a typical length for a kazu-uchi mono?

Thanks Pete, I did not know that Shinsa could be so good as to determine from "Bishu Osafune" without the swordsmith name that the blade is gimei. Sue koto Gimei Bizen blades I have come across had "Bizen koku Ju ..." mei, or at least a nengo together with Bishu Osafune. If mass bundled swords were in fashion for Bizen cutting ability, I am not sure it is the case nowadays. I was assuming the blade is koto so I have ruled out shinshinto (nakago, hada, suguta, nagasa... are quite different). The mei seems to be quite old (from the same period as the sword), but only shinsa can confirm it or not . Which leads me to think that even if it is Bizen, at 95%, it can be a Kazu uchi mono. I say "it can be" because of the lack of polish. It could be after a polish a real gem. All in all, price+polish+shinsa = 2,5 k$ (more or less) - before doing anything I should have a window opened by a polisher. The Nakago patina has suffered to .... But, if the sword takes the polish as it is katana so why not...

Hi Peter, Blades with mei (signature) beginning by "Bishu Osafune ...." are generally considered like being mass product swords during this period (Warring states) cf. following link. http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/TOKJAPAN/WARRING.HTM Ten thousands of blades were forged during this period - Bizen (Bishu) being the most prolific for mass product swords, followed by Mino (Noshu). However, even if the mei begins with "Bishu Osafune ..." : If there is a nengo (date) on the tang (nakago) : it is better If there is an original hi : it is better .... Now to date this sword is almost impossible, it is a typical uchigatana made to be wielded with a single hand, I shall say probably late 15th/beginning 16th century. Starting Tenbun nagasa (cutting edge) was longer. It is compatible with Eisho era (1504) The mei reads "Bishu Osafune Katsumitsu" : Katsumitsu (swordsmith)of Osafune (Village) of Bizen (Province) Suguta (shape) looks like Bizen sue koto and nobody (right in his mind) is going to chisel Bishu Osafune on a sword (no added value ...).

Peter, Few chances to have a museum class sword with mei beginning by "Bishu Osafune ....". Should have it been a museum class sword, Katsumitsu should have at least chiselled the nengo, put is personal name "Jiro..." The mei (signature) should have been something like : "Bizen koku Ju osafune Jirozaemon no Jo Katsumitsu (saku)" and the date "nengo" chiselled on the other side of the Tang (nakago) But that a general rule, there always exceptions (but scarce)

on board Dus

I agree with Carlo, at the level of the notch, nakago seems to slightly cave in. Yasurime are kiri, indicating either SHINTO or Suriage Koto, dark steel, could be koto end of Nambokucho beginning Muromachi suriage blade. Nioi deki will lead to Mino/Bizen rather Mino from the hada.

Ok I am ready to post the prizes :D :D :D

Hi Jacques, Read carefully what is written : . The article provided proves at 100% that I am right - There is none mentioned Now, there may be some exception for Bishu Osafune Ju» very scarce compare to the others but not made to order blades with personal blades. But as you are a specialist of references, please I encourage you (and NMB members) to list in the article the number of mei mentioned beginning by "Bizen koku ju osafune" and "Bizen koku Osafune Ju ...." (0) or "Bishu Osafune Ju....) - In all Kaji listed I have not seen the mei "Bishu Osafune Ju ..." but one - listed only in Hawley (Hyoe no jo kiyomitsu) Page 28 of the article there is an exhibition with no blade mei beginning by "Bizen kuni Osafune Ju» .." Now I am curious to know how many shoshin papered Sue Bizen blades NMB members have come across bearing the mei "Bizen Kuni Osafune Ju» ..." and How many bearing the "Bizen kuni Ju» Osafune ..." Only thing I can say is that Honma Junji in "his short life" has never seen a Shoshin mei (in Sue Bizen) beginning by "Bizen Koku Osafune Ju ...". We have a saying in French "Exception creates the rule"

Foreword : Everything I shall state in this topic is about Sue Bizen Blades starting from 1466 till Momoyama and is under my own responsibility Thank you for your feedback Brian. Considering the topic, I don't know the seller but my attention was drawn by the "Mei+NTHK kanteisho" (mentioned in the text but not pictured as in all the other Seller auctions where the Kanteisho is pictured). I must confess (for the first time in NMB) I am going to be very direct : In sue Bizen, this statement is totally false : All NMB members can remember having seen hundred times the mei : Bishu Osafune So and So (some of them are on Aoi-Art - whatever we think of this website - Tsuruta san states " he never mentionned the "Jyu") they are the most frequent : {C}http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/06222.html{C} Who remember Bishu Osafune "Jyu" Sukesada (no advertisins meant :lol:)? Best swords were signed (in Sue Bizen) in the following syntax : "Bizen Koku Ju Osafune Jurozaemon (No) Jo Harumitsu Saku." Notice the place of Ju› in this mei (before Osafune) and not as stated by the seller The Bizen Part of the Nihon To Koza was written by KOIZUMI HISAO and was revised and enlarged by HONMA JUNJI - It closes the controverse I won't say that it does not exist Sue Bizen blades signed "Bizen Koku Osafune Ju» ..." but they must be as frequent as the Juyo Bishu Osafune ones (It exist one - thanks Darcy) MY ADVICE : NEVER BUY A SUE BIZEN BLADE SIGNED WITH THE "Ju›" AFTER "OSAFUNE" UNTIL PAPERED AND A RETURN POLICY OR YOU WILL BUY A GIMEI (AT 99%). Now for those who are skeptical: Please read Sue Koto : Japanese Swords of the 15th & 16th Centuries - Volume 2 - Bizen school - List the mei beginning as the Seller states "Bizen Koku Osafune Ju ..." (BTW Sukemitsu p151 - ) Some Sukemitsu blades are combined of Mokume and flowing itame but itame-masame For those who wonder why such an outburst, I shall confess : my first buy was a Gimei "Bizen Kuni Osafune Ju ...." I speak by experience :rofl: :laughabove: I think Darcy or Gordon could say some words about the syntax [/b]

Jacques, I perfectly understood your answer (and agree with you) but you are off topic. Here is the topic and I would like your opinion and the NMB members one :

Jacques, In the case I mentionned, the problem is that we have a Sue Bizen sword signed : "bizen koku osafune jyu sukemitsu saku" - The "jyu" is misplaced at the opposite of your example where it is stated that the blade had a careful gimei inscription. In my example, the problem lies in the syntax of the mei and the place of the "jyu". Has any other NMB members encounter a certified blade (sue bizen) beginning by "Bizen kuni Osafune "Jyu" ...? For the ones who interested in this mei (key point for gimei), here is an extract of the Nihonto Koza (AFU translation - Koto I) page 366 - last paragraph (It is quote of a quote)

So, to NMB's members still alive or awake, what do do you think of it?