Gakusee

If only on one side, as Ray says, then probably kitaeware.

Is it on both sides of the sword? Hagire is mostly perpendicular but could be at an angle as it is a crack in the hamon.

The main difference being that Rai is not an improvement on Sanji, Gojo, Awataguchi, while Ichimonji is an improvement on ko-Ichimonji. But again, the comparison is not appropriate as you have Fukuoka Ichi, Yoshioka Ichi, Kamakura Ichi, Katayama Ichi, etc etc, with differing degrees of nie / nioi forging and different degrees of flamboyance. Some Katayama Ichimonji are confused for Aoe, some of the Kamakura Ichi have a lot of nie. So, I am afraid the Bizen school has something for everyone - those who are obsessed with nie and hada and those who like flamboyant hamon. You just need to pick the school and period.

I thought Uwe’s comment was tongue-in-cheek and jocular in nature? For an amateur like me, the photos in Uwe’s website actually show a great exhibition

As always it boils down to personal preferences. Maybe Chris is not a Rai person? Some of the criticisms for Rai were about thin skin and superficial beauty, which you do not have with Bizen. There is no sumihada and unsightly patches that sometimes can be seen in Rai or Hizen. The argument about mass production - well, successful schools had to deal with demand. The Osafune school was so successful that indeed they had a great number of master smiths signing on behalf of Nagamitsu probably (it is a less documented process but is mentioned in some of the books). What is less glamorous and definitely less good is the mass “Sukesada” production (excepting Yosozaemon and one other) and mass Mino production. But these two later offshoots had to satisfy the constant war driven demand for blades and did not have time for perfection.

Ken, thanks and that is very informative, but you are actually supporting my point about regulation-induced shortening?! The broader point I was trying to make and clearly failed was that a given blade could have been shortened for regulatory reason but also due to damage. We cannot know why and how a specific blade was shortened. Some were cut because of the stature of the owner (Oda Nobunaga), others due to damage (occasionally visible in habaki or nakago area - see Darcy B’s TJ Hasebe) and yet others - due to regulations and possibly some - for a combination of these reasons.

Ok, let me explain about Bizen as that is getting me: - Bizen smiths could and did forge in nie- please refer to Ko-Bizen and Ko-Ichimonji, where nie is very, very clear - Gotoba and others (post Ko Ichimonji) seem to have liked the finesse of nioi and konie, hence Fukuoka Ichimonji responded to market demand and their patron, the emperor - the Ichimonji smiths therefore started to forge more in nioi, though nie is present as konie in the hamon, jigane (including small chikei) and sunagashi. Often Ichimonji descriptions in the Juyo zufu nado refer to konie ( please read through the Juyo description of my Ichimonji below as an example) - to compensate for the “softer” jigane, which also helped relieve Hamon stresses (choji in the Hamon introduced some torsional tensions), the Ichimonji smiths hardened the jigane with utsuri. So, you see the intricacy and technical innovation - complex hamon to please visually (and scare oppponents per some texts) but softer jigane to compensate for hamon and then utsuri to harden the jigane. - going beyond Ichimonji, we move to Osafune, where all of the smiths could and did render some konie and then we eventually reach the 4 generation, where Kenemitsu, Chogi Nagayoshi, Kencho Kanenaga, Chikakage all produced Soden Bizen with plenty of nie. So, Bizen smiths were virtuosos as were the Soshu guys. Yamashiro elegance is something else but in technical innovation the Soshu and Bizen smiths ruled. Extract: “ The two major currents of Kamakura era Bizen were the Ichimonji and the Osafune Schools with the former distributing until the Nanbokuchô era successfully into the Fukuoka, Yoshioka, Iwato and other local branches which all gave rise to many outstanding smiths. The name of the school goes back to the habit of some of its smiths signing their blades just with the character (monji) for “one” (ichi). However, some Ichimonji smiths also signed with a name under the character Ichi, or just their name and without the character Ichi. The Yoshioka-Ichimonji School took the place of the earlier Fukuoka-Ichimonji School and prospered from the end of the Kamakura until the Nanbokuchô period. Representative Yoshioka-Ichimonji smiths were for example Sukemitsu (助光), Sukeyoshi (助吉), Sukeshige (助茂), and Sukeyoshi (助義), i.e. the smiths of this school shared the character for Suke (助). As for the workmanship of the school, we hardly find the large dimensioned midare that was applied by the earlier Fukuoka-Ichimonji School but usually a rather small dimensioned midare which shows a noticeable amount of gunome. This blade shows an overall dense itame that is mixed with mokume and that features ji-nie, a fine chikei, and a midare-utsuri. The hamon is a chôji that is mixed with gunome, togariba, plenty of ashi and yô, small tobiyaki, kinsuji, and sunagashi. The hardening is in nioi-deki with ko-nie and the nioiguchi is bright and clear. Thus the jiba shows very well the characteristic features of the Yoshioka-Ichimonji School and we therefore agree with the inscription. The blade is of a superb deki, having an excellently forged kitae and a yakiba with a clear and bright nioiguchi, and is in addition of an outstanding condition. “

I would like to avoid tilting the argument towards differences in taste. Of course, personal predilections do however colour and inform one’s views. So, I would go with the statement that (on average, excluding some exceptional blades) Yamato is often overrated as are Hizen blades. The former were created as utilitarian blades and that is how they ought to be viewed. But so were others - with the difference that apart from serving the main purpose (cut) they were also beautiful (an added bonus - eg look at Soshu or Bizen). One often hears how Yamato blades are rare - it is for a reason. They were used, abused, destroyed and mostly not treasured. They were not treasured because probably aesthetically they were not great or one emperor (or another) or shoguns did not like them. But those lieges knew better than us what was good functionally and visually. The latter - well, replicas of the past (Yamashiro) and also suffer from some of the Rai criticisms above. In general, I would not have picked on the Rai school to find fault with. Interesting approach, Chris. I have mostly seen beautiful Rai work. Were they commercially minded? Absolutely. But they were shrewd and also had to deal with the diminishing resources they had.

No, as one cannot predict when and how the blade was shortened and for what reason. Some were shortened for aesthetic reasons or due to regulations (sword length was postulated in Edo Japan) and others due to damage. The damage could have been a war/battle (eg Sengoku) or a duel later one etc. So you cannot extrapolate easily.

Guido, thanks for the empirical research and the outcome. It is great to know how it is mostly done. And the restoration job - excellent. Well done!

Too much preoccupation with ana, gentlemen. Old blades were shortened all the time. In fact, most Koto swords have been shortened one way or another. Therefore, the process of shortening (usually in Edo period) contaminates your analysis because by that point indeed drilling seems to have been prevalent. So, it is not surprising at all that you could have a Koto blade with a drilled mekugiana.

Well, I really enjoy your threads and topics as they make us think and reach for our knowledge and encourage good debate. Wherever they are placed. I miss the old threads of 6-10 years ago where people would pitch their experience and knowledge in sometimes heated manner but at least gems of knowledge were coming out. A lot of the older contributors seem to have retired or to have been exiled (that is a “theory” here for you).....

The 9.5m Naotane currently for sale? For a Shinshinto it looks like a great sword but also priced accordingly.....

Masamune needs to be seen to be understood / believed. The hada is tight, as inherited via his teacher Shintogo (Awataguchi lineage): but not only is it tight, it is magical - nie scintillates like crushed diamonds in the jiba (I.e. across the hada but also in the hamon as sunagashi and kinsuji). Furthermore, there are chikei that criss-cross the hada (again nie based but in a different formation). Also, the hamon has this natural, wild feeling to it without being too gaudy. Masamune inherited his technique of forging tight hada via Yamashiro/Awataguchi, so that was done before him. Also, rendering in nie was done before him and he emulated KoBizen and Hoki in the nie-laden hamon rich in sunagashi and kinsuji. He did pioneer some more intricate construction and indeed combined all the aforementioned elements in one, thus reaching heights of visual craftsmanship but also functionality. However, Soshu Yukimitsu also had marvelous blades, which at their best beat “average”/ lower-level Masamune. Go Yushihiro as well.... Anyway, Chian and Omar, welcome to this fascinating field. There are no straightforward answers or shortcuts here -just many years, decades of study and handling swords and discussing with Nihonto people live....

Both of the above are acceptable answers. Both core steel (less refined in most cases unless monotlithic plank like some KoBizen) exposed through repeated polishing and less homogenous steel than the later centralised-tatara procurement could engender are the cause. However, it is a misconception that tight and refined hada was not available or was more scarce in Koto. Simply the mujihada of later blades is so prevalent that we sometimes confuse this for workmanship and craftsmanship instead of simply the homogeneity of central tamahagane. One needs to look at Sanjo/Gojo/Awataguchi work and of course Masamune, Kagemitsu, Kanemitsu, Go etc which not only has superior but also richer (more nie, more chikei etc) hada.

I think you a bit ambitious with the books and levels. Nakahara is level 3-4 and fact and fundamentals is levels 2-4. NBTHK reading is also level 2-4 Koza by Junji Honma and the Gokaden series by Tanobe sensei should be in there (probably same as Fujishiro, level 3-4) and also specific smiths or schools books

Apologies - a question for the technically challenged like me: how does one download this on an iPhone or iPad? I tried several times but nothing happens. Thank you

I agree with Jean - this is actually a very good koshirae and these are expensive. To buy or make it today one should set aside $10k+ is what I have been told. I wonder whether the issues Jean is referring to about the hada are not due to tiredness of the blade and also sumi areas. Aoe hada should be better than this. And let us not even go into the old text left over from an Aoe naginata naoshi which had been shaved to create an yakizume boshi etc. Aoi seems to be forgetting to redact out old text so often these days.....

Agreed, Brian, but one can very roughly figure things out from the photo and the Nagasa. This looks rather chunky to me to be a boy’s sword and I am estimating the sakihaba to be around 1.9-2 cm give or take from the proportions. Seems like a wakizashi to me too, like most people above but.....

The certificate states nagasa of 26cm

Well done for achieving this! It is a very good sword and it epitomises Yamato and its archetype - whether Hosho or Tegai, it does not matter that much. Importantly it comes with a Kunzan sayagaki (these are rarer) and the old koshirae. So, a great package throughout. I shall not make presumptions about what can be achieved economically by you or whether you might wish to continue buying masame hada swords or not. That would be over-reaching but there is a whole spectrum to collect within Yamato den and also in between Koto and ShinShinto (the two endpoints in your collection). In my own collecting approach I have decided to focus on one school and trace it from an old era to perhaps around early Muromachi at most (very likely I shall stop at Nanbokucho or very early Muromachi). You have done very well and again - congratulations! Study and treasure the sword and it would give you many hours, days and years of enjoyment. Like others on the board, I have discovered new things in my blades when i look at them at different moments in time, with different light (various artificial lights but also daylight) and also laying them one next to another to contrast and compare.

Jussi, well done for the scholastic and methodical approach.

Rayhan I am with you here. We have strayed into comparisons to other art (eg Renaissance painting) or manufacture (watches, etc) as we have done before while the only useful inference is to conclude that Nihonto collecting (and crafting) is fundamentally different to those. Rolexes are not unique as swords are, were made in high numbers by a machine and because they were a utility (not cheap but still a utility) cannot be compared to handcrafted works of art (we are not talking of the kazuuchimono stuff). I agree with you on another point too. The high-end market is thriving and has completely different dynamics and is frequented by very private individuals. I have observed at arm’s length how it happens. It took all of 1 min for a gentleman to buy the 42m yen TokuJu Yoshifusa formerly owned by a daimyo (and in splendid koshirae) at the 2018 DTI. The fact that we do not know them, or do not see them, does not mean they do not exist. They do not opine on forums. They do not engage in petty arguments. They do not question what will happen if there are more swords on the market or if people had better knowledge (in fact they thrive on that lack of transparency and knowledge) or question Juyo vs TJ vs Yuhin vs JuBi.

This is wrong on many levels - from significantly understating the number of Juyo blades to the respect for the Juyo paper collapsing....People have plenty of data points to compare “weaker” Juyo and their prices (various examples on Aoi Art website, as that is a very prolific source of info) to higher-end Juyo. Juyo signifies a degree of quality and worthiness that would not “collapse”. And people need to exercise their judgment no matter what the level of the blade. There are Juyo blades on the market which are tired or without boshi or are a bit shorter - they might be cheaper but there will be something to learn from them and will invariably be very good blades (might not be excellent/outstanding but that is a perception of the user). Many people on this forum have said multiple times that Japanese blades are underpriced compared to other forms of art (when the blades are however indeed art and of historic importance, that is - not when these are mass/machine produced). So, drawing parallels to better-understood and more “populous” art domains such as paintings or other collectibles such as cars cannot justifiably be done. The only connectors between them are human greed, self-interest, emotional exuberance/irrationality etc.

Chris Another good, thought provoking thread and hopefully it stimulates a bit of debate. Lately, most of the posts have been around people selling things and also in military items. I do not understand why you are struggling with the rationalisation of the information asymmetry. It provides opportunities both within Japan, but even outwith, for dealers to realise profits. Exactly because of these inefficiencies Western dealers can make a profit, even though, more and more Japanese dealers become increasingly more active on the Web. So Western collectors can compare prices. Western dealers can put a profit margin on something not always overly desirable or expensive in Japan (plentiful there) and dress it up and present it as premium and sell at a handsome profit in the West. You raise the possibility of extreme Pareto situation in Japan. To some extent you are right. There are 3-4 collectors on Japan who are billionaires or at the very least multi-millionaires. They have many thousands of blades. They effectively set the top blade / level prices. Often the most exclusive blades are reserved for them or shown to them first. Then you also have 3-4 very high-end dealers who are also collectors and who also influence the market to some extent. The Japanese dealers all, or mostly, know each other. The preagreements you talk about might and likely happen. The above facts will persist as it is not customary or easy to change tradition and culture in Japan. Dealers in Japan might wish to preserve the status quo and the same applies to the Western dealer. Then there is another factor -no one knows the entire market. Some people, who might have been collecting Juyo and TokuJo Zufu, might get close to an idea of the top NBTHK blades and the same with the Yuhin items from NTHK perspective. But even that is not the entire market as high quality blades are still emerging unpapered etc. You should view information asymmetry as an opportunity. Diminishing indeed but still very much there.