Stegel

I'm of the belief that the end of the tang has been heated, perhaps with an oxy/aceylene torch to get that much colour change. To get that much heat generated using a blunt drill bit, well, they must have been drilling for half an hour just to penetrate 5-6mm???

Hi All, Chris, As mentioned, the sword is genuine, ans the stamp is a poorly struck Seki stamp. Neil, in the picture you posted of your two swords, is one handle longer than the other or are my eyes deceiving me???

Hi JR, I think it is series 33...... The guy's on the gunboards forum are very good with these, perhaps a post over there would help you out also. Have a look at these links, they might solve your problem. The series stamps are the same for the Arisaka rifles and bayonets as far as i know. http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/HTNL%20DOCUMNETS/japanese_arisaka_bayonets.htm http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages/Japanese_Bayonet_Markings/Japanese_Bayonet_Markings.pdf http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/Japan/japan_2.html The Arsenal Stamp is the "four cannon balls" known as the Tokyo Arsenal until 1923 and then a name change to Kokura Arsenal from 1924-1945

I hope this clears things up a bit... What i meant was that looking at the one poor picture of the second sword, you cannot dismiss it as 'fake' so easily when the obvious tell tale signs of it being fake are not there and it appears to be genuine. My response to Matt's question would be that it looks OK, but get some better photos so you can confirm. I suppose i was more puzzled as to WHY you decided it was fake.... thats all. However, i agree with you both (Wayne and Doug), you obviously wouldn't buy it without more pictures available that are going to be clearer, so you can make a better assesment of what you would be investing in. It's good that you guys brought that point up as Matt needs to be aware of it, and i certainly wasn't suggesting an impulse buy based on that one photo.

mauser99 Posted Today, 12:03 AM I think that going by just that poor quality photo, you could not make that call.Overall it appears genuine to me.

An interesting read, I'm sitting on the Post War assembled side of the fence on these. Especially when mixed combinations of IJA and IJN parts are found on the one sword. I think that the non-mixed types could possible be late war, either pure navy or army (with black scabbard and/or black same/material), but i have never known or heard of them as "NLF" issue. The type 3 (44 pattern) was normally associated with NLF in decades past... but thanks to Nick's research, we know that it's not the case, and should be more correctly termed as the Type 0 (issued/enacted in 194"0") or 'contingency' issue. Here's the link if interested: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17717-deflating-another-myth-the-type-3-army-officers-sword/ I have a gunto, it is an Army issue with black suede covered wooden saya. It also came with the Sam Brown sytle belt (double prong buckle). In F&G it is mentioned as a Naval Land Garrison issue from memory, i'll have to double check and make sure. From memory, i think the NLF were comprised of both naval land garrison troops and backed with army troops, hence the wide assortment of Koshirae types???

Thank you for sharing Roger! A very nice example indeed.

I agree, a reproduction. Some of these have the scabbard serial number on the drag. Either way, it is still a copy.

As the snow flakes fall and the landscape whitens, what are you gonna do? put on your winter camo fatigues of course! Now you would expect your trusty Gunto to come to the party...and it does!!! Took some pics earlier today for a fellow board member here, who asked me to see my Type 95 gunto's in winter camo, which i thought i'd share here with you. These would of been used in Manchuria and probably also the Aleutian island campaign near Alaska. After 70 yrs or so, the paint has become more of an off white, almost cream in colour, then again perhaps it was that to start with anyway - i can't be sure. The first photo shows a 'normal' type 95 with olive drab scabbard for comparison, It and the first winter camo aluminium handled sword are made by the Tokyo 1st Arsenal through the Suya subcontractor, The following two swords are made by Seki and the Nagoya Arsenal. If you look closely, you will notice that the Aluminium handle was also painted white, as is evidenced by the paint remains in the folds of the aluminium. The last one is a pattern 5, the first of the wooden handles, so fairly late in the war. Hope you all enjoy.

I went back to look at this piece a bit closer, and noticed something interesting. If you look at the picture with the tsuba being displayed, then look at the imitation same under the ito wrap..... it is strikingly similar to the original post on this thread. Some of the nipples/nodules look raised, others give the impression of being 'punched' to quote hamfish. (see attached pic) This now being the 3rd such example -by the same maker, -all sharing many similarities -in a similar number range. IMO these are not fake handles or modern reproductions, but period pieces. I also noticed that this maker is not present in the sea of fakes going about. The majority are attempts at SUYA and GIFU with obviously poor stampings. I posted in another thread once, a few fakes that had very good stampings (good enough to fool the novice) but they were of the SUYA style. Also, lately, a few of the chinese sellers are listing their swords as reproductions and 'type 95 style'. Hopefully sales are down and the tide is turning!! (but i doubt it)

Bruce, i must say that your 'fetish' for viewing the tangs seems to be bearing fruit!! I'm amazed at the tang you've shown....very interesting!! i never would have had any inkling to pull mine apart! thought they were all the same. It seems that it could be a whole new field of investigation. Good work!

Changing the subject a bit....... Don't feel bad about this sword or the debate on it. As mentioned earlier, if you really want a good one, look around. I had a bit of a search in the UK for you, most were sold, i came across a fake advertised as genuine, but i also found one dealer with 2 genuine swords which are still available. Here are the links: 1- https://www.paradeantiques.co.uk/militaria/edged-weapons/swords/wwii-Japanese-non-commissioned-officer-sword-knot?zenid=d1hn85uc9io2pdaibjltf9cks5 2- https://www.paradeantiques.co.uk/militaria/edged-weapons/swords/wwii-Japanese-non-commissioned-officers-sword?zenid=d1hn85uc9io2pdaibjltf9cks5 Have a look and if you like, contact the dealer with an offer ....you never know. I personally feel the first one is a better example. I think the pricing is a little too high, but that's where you would come in. Good Luck BTW- Both swords are by the same contractor, look at the groove on each.... the higher numbered one with the unpainted handle has the same groove as the original one you looked at. It is closer in serial number range to the one you were looking at also, and the grooves are similar.....fake??? i doubt it. Collectors should be careful not to easily dismiss something as fake if it has any variations from the accepted 'norm' From many years of experience, i would say that if we did this every time because it's not in F&G or even Dawson's. then it would diminish the collecting field immensely.

LOL, was just thinking (as i got an old phone and need to get a new one)........ perhaps you could use a new camera!!! I am getting a bit long in the tooth though! squint too much and the specs don't really help.

I'm niot sure i understand what you mean here, could you elaborate a bit ?

You need to be sure of exactly What kind of Alarm you think this is. To me it rings of - beware this sword has been played with post war......... it is not a beware of a fake alarm! The sword is produced by the Tokyo 1st Arsenal as can be seen by the stampings and orientation of serial numbers. The scabbard is correctly stamped and is also a Tokyo 1st Arsenal variant. Yes it has been repainted, however, this was never a point of contention.

OK Hamfish, It appears that they're punched in certain sections, the same could be said of other photo i posted, which is in the same range. What exactly are you referring to here?? Do you mean the handle cast itself??

Most unusual Neil, i was initially thinking that the fuchi part was a part of the retention system used with that style of tsuba, but then i saw the rest of the pics....wow. I have never seen anything like that before! Nice

The kissaki is not the same finish for all sub contractors. The ones you have shown from the book are the better ones. Also there are many production variations in the type95. You can also find (in a specific range) Aluminium handled swords with NO groove, and in two sections of the 200k range, Wooden handled swords WITH groove present.

Well Hamfish, I would have to completely disagree with you about the screaming repro part. I know what you mean and have to say initially a few years ago i thought the same, but i've seen quite a few swords since then and had changed my opinion, especially after seeing this occur in other sections of the serail number ranges. There are a few sections of the serial numbers where the BoHi is applied in this way, this range with this subcontractor is one of them. (It is a lot neater in other ranges for this company's production) Seki has also produced this type of groove but only with the wooden handled pattern 5 in the 200k range. I don't think the imitation same is punched in, but the photo is not quite clear enough to confirm. The serial number application is ok and i have attached some photo\s of a sword by the same maker some 50 digits in the serial range lower. It is very similar and even appears to have a darker same like this one, but i admit the photo is not the best. I also include 2 photo's of a sword which Shamsy was going to get, it is 10 digits higher but made by the Suya sub contractor and therefore is completely different.... more like what you would expect and are probably refering to. IMO the sword in the original post is in poor condition, but is genuine, and if it were me i would probably wait for a nicer example to show up. Cheers 40298 with winter camo scabbard (SUYA ) 40235 similar to the OP

Over the years i've only seen a few of these, i think this is the third. So i put them as a bit of a rarity! Very nice Neil !

I hate this what i call chicken scratchings for kanji, typical of mass produced ww2 blades, not as clear and easy to read. (at least for my eye) I'm sure someone will be able to read it and get back to you... my gueass is showa 12 (1937) or possibly 13??

It is a genuine Type95 gunto, that is real and not a rotter! However, the condition appears to be a bit poor. If you are not in a hurry, i recommend waiting untill you come across a nicer example. Can you provide more pctures of the whole sword and scabbard? As Neil said, it's ok if the price is right.

This is why the education side of collecting is so important!! To a novice who buys on impulse........then asks in the forums..........you'll get BURNT This is a blatant fake, which you should keep well away from.

Neil, The stamp preceding the serial number and on the drag is ‘He’ . It is the Jinsen Army Arsenal Inspection Stamp from Pyongyang Heigo Factory, and is sometimes found in conjunction with the second class military weapon stamp.... the kanji for 2 inside a circle. You will only find these on the Patterns 6, 7, & 8. All the Wooden scabbard models. Sometimes you will also find it on the scabbard throat metal work and the fuchi area of these swords.

Well Wayne, Lowest wooden handle that i know of ,,,,, 201879 . This is only 18 digits higher...... with Fullered blade! Wayne, I assume your's is an Aluminium handle patterm 4??