Stegel

Ease up Lads! He hasn't shown us the rusty and pitted blade that's housed inside!

I can only help you with pictures of old sales that i have seen, as i don't have any examples of my own. The tachi both have Mantetsu blades, the gunto is SMR. The first Tachi has IMO more of a "real" gunto ito wrap,(that is circa WW2), while the second could be a re-wrap? Trystan, thanks for sharing those great pics, very interesting! Here's a Tachi : (included the nakago if it helps you out on your mantetsu database) Another Tachi : (this one was discussed here on the forum, link included, again nakago pics for your info) http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/15683-ww2-southern-manchurian-railway-tachi/ Another SMR sword, this time gunto with tassel, nakago has 2 stamps:

Nice pick up Dan, Good clean examples are IMO the best to seek out and get. Your second example with the undrilled handle is interesting, as it makes me wonder if it had been replaced over the last few years. I say this as there were quite a few undrilled handles for sale a few years back. Heres some pics of what was on offer, mainly aluminium handles but also some minty copper ones from memory. All were from different sellers and all had the fuchi attached, but no locking hook inserted. Aluminium: another... Copper:

Happy Easter to all here! Just a quick update on this - most interesting thread. Come across this yesterday... The blade and scabbard are indeed Chinese reproductions, He originally bought it back on 31st Jan for $685 from ebay. : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-WWII-WW2-Katana-NCO-Sword-w-Scabbard-Matching-numbers-/202575490435?hash=item2f2a70ad83%3Ag%3AqyAAAOSwylBcSme3&nma=true&si=latlyswWH9XXD%252BFGnh8E378J6gk%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 He also has this currently listed for sale twice now... as a prototype for $3999 and as a rare piece for $2999. His Original asking price in March was $1999. Obviously he doesn't realise what he has bought and is now trying to resell, is rubbish.....just fishing for fools. Also in all my years of collecting, i've never seen so many Type 98(and type 95) "wire" sarute as what he has got for sale. I think he may have set up a jig and is recycling old fencing wire as some look very suspicious as well.

I agree, it looks like a copy to me also. Cosmoline was the popular and widely used product to cover blades with by returning vets, particularly the Americans. It is a type of grease, which dries out hard over time and in thin layers it has the appearance of varnish. Steve is right, some methylated spirits will soften it and remove it. My little bit of useless trivia for the day! Cheers guys

Hi Guys! In my opinion, its not even a copper handle. The ito pattern is wrong. At best it is a heavily painted aluminium handle, and i would venture to say that it may also be of Chinese origin as are the scabbard and blade. There are a lot of NCO parts available recently, and i believe these shonky sellers are clearing their stocks out. This particular seller has been reported to be selling overpriced fakes as originals, particularly flags. There is a thread about him over on the WAF forum. ALL his stuff is over priced, fishing for fools.... so beware. When i ousted Showa22, i noticed some trades and believe he has had dealings with him.

Top Job !! with excellent result. As it's winter over there, you can now sit back proudly and enjoy a shnaps or two!

Thanks for Sharing guys!!

Thanks George! It's very nice and i'm feeling much better after seeing more! Now with you being a curator and what i would call an academic also, I'd like to pick your brain and ask if any of the swords surrendered to the Australians at their ceremonies (as war trophies), had plaques fitted to the scabbards? Or is that a predominantly British theme?? Years ago, the Museum here had swords on display, but they were no longer there the last time i went, and haven't been for ages, so i cannot confirm one way or the other.

OK Thanks Matt,

These are pics from the OP that i adjusted exposure/contrast to see variations in colour. The yellow is definitely there... crop of original picture supplied (rather dull lighting) adjusted picture :

What i was referring to here, can be seen in these pics: Even this one shows evidence of wear and fading of the straps going towards the tassel itself. Ohmura says they were used by the Police-affairs organization which the South Manchurian Railways oversaw.

It would be interesting to find out what Richard thinks. Personally, before getting too carried away, why could this still not be just a late war re-fit?? Have i missed something??

I agree with you John, the crowns are large and even though genuine tassels can be seen with them, they are nearly always found on reproductions. Civilian admin tassels are a creamy (off white) and brown, i've only seen them with South Manchurian Railway swords, but no yellow exists to my knowledge. I put the image in the OP through some exposure/contrast changes and the colour is definitely yellow, and as such, i'm leaning towards fake also. I found the auction house that hosted the sale, the description doesn't give any confidence in my mind that it is any sort of 'War trophy' as would be common in Commonwealth Forces controlled surrender ceremonies. The date is uncertain.... Generals, rank and name unmentioned as they are probably unknown....hmmm... good paperwork! no plaque is attached to the scabbard, as would be normal practice by the British at official ceremonies, especially when high ranking officers surrendered their swords. quote from description : and... I think this sale was just an attempt to try and get a big return on an sword which is essentially a retired piece now in a relic class. Unfortunately, after the sale, no photo's are available any longer, do you have any others of the tassel in particular Matt??

Very interesting, Kyle. Can you provide more pictures or even the Auction link please??

Thanks Peter, very interesting read! And Thanks for sharing your sword too George! (although i would have preferred more pictures!! ) I really like this sort of stuff, very interesting! Do any of our members have swords which have been surrendered, be they American surrenders or British/Australian that they could share??

The sword is a civilian sword, not military, the tsuba although poor as mentioned, was not claimed to be military. Yes the actual ito wrap is done differently, but it is wrapped much better than any reproduction one i have seen. Having had it in hand, i can say it was not of modern or recent manufacture, definitely old and i believe it to be a period piece The blade tip is usually a major give away with fakes, as well as any form of damascus forging. This blade had none of these. It was dull and out of polish. See below. Yes, you're quite right about buying the sword and not the story, as i said before i had no reason to doubt what he said. If the general concensus here, is that this is a fake, then i'll live with that.

Jean, The fellow i bought them from, was selling out his late fathers home and clearing out his belongings. His father brought these back from Japan after the war ended. He knew nothing about them as a collector would have, so i have no reason to doubt him. The Ujifusa which is what i was originally interested in, is still in my collection and one of my favourite pieces. Yes the tsuba looked poor to me aswell. The ito wrap material was of lesser quality than you would find in a military issue, but not un-similar to the late war type-3 low end types. The scabbard cover is the composite leather instead of being real leather aswell.

Admittedly, this would not be my first choice for an example of gunto, however, there are late war Japanese swords that have such poorly finished tangs. Better pictures are a must here, if we are to come to a definitive answer on it being a fake. Things i personally don't like about it are the habiki and tsuba, but i would hope that the 'jury' has as many facts presented to it as possible before it passes it's verdict, otherwise we're just members of a lynch mob in the end. Here's one i owned and passed on, i know the providence of it and it came back post war, it is a civilian model with the features you highlighted Dave. I was purchasing an 'Ujifusa' in gunto mounts at the time and the owner wouldn't sell unless this went with it.. an all or nothing package deal so to speak. The tang had been cleaned up a bit and reshaped to give it better form i believe, so it would have been even rougher to look at originally. I think i have some photo's of others which were in military mounts but cannot find them at the moment. The Kanji stamp has some Buddhist meaning from memory.

OK, I'll be a stick in the mud, and go on to say that i have seen some late war stuff which IS Japanese,- and it looked worse than this piece. I agree the photo's could have been better quality to show more detail, and maybe you should ask for them. Without them i wouldn't condemn this one to the definitely 'fake' catagory just yet. The tsuba also appears to be the 'thick' version which i've seen a couple over the years. they're not very common, although this one does look a bit rough. Mixture of parts is most definitely a possibility, but lets not forget the IJA/IJN concoctions of fittings that we've all seen before. just my 2 cents worth..

Noticed this the other day, thought you guys here might be interested. Maybe you know about it already, so sorry if i'm repeating a previous thread. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2018/08/2d088f22e1ab-1400-guns-1200-swords-found-buried-at-tokyo-elementary-school.html I wonder if there has been any follow up reports, and if anything was able to be salvaged. A lost national treasure perhaps?? wishful thinking i suppose.

They first began production in 1938, one year after the copper handles were introduced with the initial release of the type95 gunto, This was the all new replacement for the type32 OTSU sword which was used by all NCO's except cavalry NCO officers. (cavalry used the longer KO version of the type32, which continued to be used and produced until 1945).

Got this from Ohmura's site. The higher Quality tassel we are looking at is the blue/brown Company Grade one. It may be confusing at first, as it is placed next to a Standard General's Tassel for comparison, but i think you get the picture now. ------> ------>

I think the OP tassel is std quality aswell. Here's some pics to help see the difference as i understand it to be. Standard quality tassel - no colour change at edges when looking at the solid colour. Top quality tassel - opposing colours appear at both top and bottom of the flattened strap. I agree with Ed about the various manufacturers supplying the IJA. I have seen an almost green tassel instead of brown for the navy, but never with the brown company grade for army use. Some of the army ones i have seen and owned had the "blue" appear to be almost purple. Here's another where the actual tassels are yellowish on one and more of a darker gold on the other, however both are Std quality when looking at the straps. Here's a Std Grade General rank tassel with Yellow thread zig-zag instead of the gold bullion thread. Hope this helps you out some.

If there is still doubt about his performance, let me put it to rest with an 8 month report card so to speak. After posting this thread, I went through my data base and cross checked previous data to confirm that what he is doing to this field of collecting could be seen as an absolute disaster. Parts are being swapped, ie brass for steel tsuba's and vice versa, fuchi and scabbards or throats of scabbards. Items are being sold multiple times on occasion, usually at a higher price than originally sold for. Cleaning is performed and even polishing. Chips and other blade damage is repaired. Re-stamping of scabbards is so rampant it could be viewed as an obsession of his, and a red flag is the over use of talc to highlight numbers and hide features of the scabbard throats. All of his sales are Matching serial numbers!! (quite a few in completely invalid configurations- as they could not have come from the issuing arsenal like this) I can back all my claims with evidence if required. In summary, 21 out of a total of 47 sales have the examples deliberately changed a further 13 are doubtful as there are suspicions present (re-stamping etc), 11 could be seen to appear genuine, and only 2 can be considered 100% genuine IMO. colour code for easy visualisation: BOLD RED----DISGRACEFUL RED------------BUSTED! CAUGHT RED HANDED ORANGE------SUSPICIOUS EXAMPLE GREEN--------APPEARS TO BE OK BLUE-----------GENUINE EXAMPLE date: serial # summary info: 20180205 37201 名 GIFU 東 Scabbard Swap & RESTAMP 20180212 51366 東 SUYA Possible RE-STAMP 20180220 120414 東 Iijima Possibly LEGIT 20180226 83370 名 SEKI LOOKS LEGIT QUICK CLEAN & RESALE 20180308 63273 名 GIFU ADDED THROAT SCREW & CLEAN LEGIT 20180318 93714 東 SUYA 名-Scabbard Swap REPAIR and RE-STAMP 20180318 148988 Iijima with Tsuba, Scabbard & FUCHI Swap and RESTAMP 20180320 90282 東 Possible LEGIT 20180323 300014 Pattern 5 Scabbard RESTAMP--> RARITY RUINED 20180328 137252 Iijima Tokyo 1st Possible TSUBA SWAP but LOOKS LEGIT 20180402 124360 東 ReStamped Scabbard 20180407 215768 関 CLEAN & REPAIR 20180409 30387 東 SUYA Possible RE-STAMP 20180414 24244 東 New Scab Throat 20180414 213538 関 Possible RE STAMP 20180420 137559 Iijima FUCHI SWAP with Possible RE-STAMP 20180423 44472 東 Iijima Possible RE-STAMP 20180425 65839 名 GIFU LOOKS LEGIT 20180428 81646 SEKI SOLD TWICE 2WKS APART 20180507 123609 東 ReStamp Scabbard 20180507 212842 FEINT STAMPS SHOWA22 20180508 55451 東 100% Scabbard RESTAMP 20180513 Pattern 8 wooden handle with GREEN ITO LEGIT EXAMPLE 20180516 99924 名 TSUBA SWAP Salmon Scab 20180522 97564 東 CLEAN & RE SELL 20180527 Pattern 8 wooden handle with RED ITO LEGIT EXAMPLE 20180603 27602 東 名-Scabbard 20180617 12637 東 Iijima Possible RE-STAMP 20180701 78249 名 GIFU LOOKS LEGIT 20180708 84662 名 SEKI LOOKS LEGIT FIRST SALE 20180709 56322 東 Iijima ADDED SARUTE PARTS 20180714 84662 名 SEKI LOOKS LEGIT SECOND SALE- TWICE WITHIN 1WK 20180719 44955 Iijima 東 LOOKS LEGIT 20180724 41823 東 名-Scabbard 20180729 28820 東 LOOKS LEGIT 20180803 41823 東 名-Scabbard 20180804 7241 東 ReStamp SWAPPED Scabbard FIRST SALE 20180809 55060 東 LOOKS LEGIT FIRST SALE 20180814 19410 東 名-Scabbard SWAPPED OUT COPPER SCABBARD #5208 20180820 39157 東 RE STAMPED 20180825 7241 東 Scabbard Swap & ReStamp SECOND SALE 20180830 55060 東 LOOKS LEGIT SECOND SALE 20180906 89468 東 REPAIR & SAUTE Added THEN RE-SELL 20180911 77131 東 Possible RE-STAMP 20180916 75398 東 LOOKS LEGIT 20180918 34360 東 CANCELLED after being exposed 20181014 123350 東 CANCELLED after being exposed again. Collecting in this field and building a data base has made it easy to make the above observations, but for the nihonto guys, well i can't say, but i would advise extreme caution. The validity of any database now requires a further degree of scutiny, and he has sent a lot of serious collectors, including myself here, into a severe tail spin, with his actions. Having said all this, i believe that no one should be buying anything from this person at all. If you wish to pursue the hobby, then there are many other sellers who do not cheat and deceive, just to make a sale chasing a quick dollar.