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Folded paper under tsuka-ito... doesn't look like hishigame?


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#1 WilBru5

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 05:27 PM

Hello all.  apon closer inspection of the gunto, which I have previously sought translation for.  I can see folded paper under the ito... but the paper doesn't look like the examples of hishigame I find online?  I don't find discriptions of putting hishigame a katate-maki wrap....So I am curious if others have found things like these.

in carefully nudging around the ito; I can see print on one piece closest to the kashira.  a visible paper closer to the tsuba shows ware from rubbing, and no print is readily visible.

I am resisting the temptation to pull them out and unfold them to see what is printed there....  I thought I would share.  Plus, any advise here would be greatly appreciated.

Attached Thumbnails

  • tsuka paper-a2.jpg
  • tsuka paper-a3.jpg
  • tsuka paper-a4.jpg
  • tsuka paper_a1.jpg

Bruce W.


#2 Dave R

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:05 PM

I could be wrong, (I often am) but to me that looks like a sloppy amateur re-wrap. 


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#3 Stephen

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:13 PM

Same here it was taken off and then rewraped ....must have looking for treasures.
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#4 vajo

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:32 PM

Maybe its part of an old newspaper.


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#5 WilBru5

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:35 PM

So... then am I reasonably same with pulling them out to see what is printed there?  Or am I risking destroying something of historical signifigance?


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#6 Grey Doffin

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:42 PM

Nothing to be gained from removing them; you'll most likely end up with random parts of book pages or a grocery list.

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#7 vajo

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:54 PM

Bruce the assembling of the parts is not correct in that way. If you want to restore the tsuka with a new ito, please look for correct seppa too.



#8 16k

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 08:58 PM

Maybe it’s a map to where the missing Masamune is hidden!

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#9 vajo

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 10:07 PM

Or it is a unpaid bill of the Japanese soldier...


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#10 WilBru5

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:23 PM

Ok Chris S.
If I am going to correct things I need to learn a bit more, (Which is why I joined this group).  If I understand correctly this sword is a commissioned officer's "Shin-Gunto" Army type 3...

The correct tsuka-ito wrap should be katate-maki(battle wrap) and not ikkan-maki…And is there a correct color,( I have seen red, brown, & green examples) wrap?  What about reusing the ito which on the tsuka now?  The examples I have found so far show the same round iron tsuba, but don't seem to give a consistent description of seppa ?   

This could be a fun project... I look forward to advise.


Bruce W.


#11 WilBru5

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 07:14 PM

As the learning process goes; sometimes my mind gets swayed...

I don't think I will "just yet" attempt to re-wrap the maki, or have the tsuka-maki redone... many examples I have found through researching show very similar wrap... thus I think more study is needed before I initiate action.  I am coming to understand there is much discussion regarding this kind of shin gunto... not an official type, but rather a variant?  A "Rinji Seishiki Gunto" as it is refered to by Mr. Nick Komiya(who seems to be very knowledgeable and a dedicated researcher).  
As for the folded paper; I think it is hishigame... I don't think they are the laudry list tho.  There are more under the wrap that I have not removed.  I will probably refold these and re-insert them.

Also the seppa tsuba  seems pretty consistent with the examples as well.

As I am pretty new to this knowledge base, any additional thoughts by more informed individuals than myself is welcome.

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Hishigame-2a.jpg
  • Hishigame-1a.jpg
  • Hishigame-3c.jpg

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Bruce W.


#12 vajo

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 08:05 PM

Bruce they use this paper to fill up the ito. Its old paper, but your tsuka ito is loosy bound. So you need a rewarp. You have a lot of possibilities in the USA to found a good working ito maki for your Type3 sword. Its a nice sword and i like the style of the koshirae a lot.

 

75404.jpg

 

The binding should look like this.

 

And as i wrote. The assembling of your Seppa washers is not correct. The bigger one to the blade side, the smaller one to the tsuka.

 

Look at the website to find out how they were assembled.

 

http://ohmura-study.net/905.html


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#13 WilBru5

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 09:30 PM

Thanks Chris I will re-arrange the seppa.  Also thank you for a very good picture of the correct wrap, I will see what can be done there.  I'll follow the link, more information is always good.

Thanks again.


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Bruce W.





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