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Help me! Two wakizashi!


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#1 Abaris


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:42 AM

Hello all, I'm searching for my first nihonto and I've been offered two wakizashi of great quality.


First one is not signed, from Kanbun period (around 1660). Mumei of 57 cm, nagasa of 44,5 cm. Hamon type is Suguha. Hada is Mokume. Shinogizukuri, chukisaki, ubu nakago and one mekugiana.


Second one is from around 1716 to 1736, fourth generation KANEWAKA, real name Tsujimura Jindai. Hako-midare, suguha, gunome-midare. Shinogizukuri, chukisaki, ubu nakago and one mekugiana.


Each one is around 2700 € (2975 $) and they have no papers, although they are sold by a very respectable seller with really good reputation (not eBay or any other online site).


Opinions on both? 


Thank you very much.

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Carlos M.

#2 Abaris


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:44 AM

And here is the second one.

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Carlos M.

#3 Bazza


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:41 AM

I would keep looking.  Difficult in Spain, I guess, but you are at least in the Northern hemisphere.  Spend some money to attend sword meetings in germane, The Netherlands, and in England.  Go to the Royal Armouries in Leeds and seek out Ian Bottomley who will I'm sure make time to show you some swords.  There is a BIG samurai museum/exhibition in Amsterdam??? Lastly, since you have joined today - WELCOME.  Spend your spare time for the next two or three weeks reading up on the Board and do read in the Articles section.


Best regards,


from waaaay down in the Southern hemisphere, Australia.



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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:49 AM

Quite expensive I would say, at that price they should have papers.

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#5 16k


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:00 PM

My opinion too. I prefer sword number two but i think they are too expensive for what they are.

Jean-Pierre CESCA, but everybody calls me JP

#6 Geraint


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:12 PM

Dear Carlos.


Just for comparison see this one, its is in polish has papers is a long sword and is about the same amount of money.  I know which one I would go for.  http://www.militaria...le-long-nagasa/


All the best.


#7 francois2605


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:47 PM

For that price range, I would immediately buy this one !

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-Francois R. (Paris, France)

#8 Abaris


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:59 PM

I also have been looking for this one:


Koto wakizashi forged in 1550. The blade is signed, MIHARA JU MASAIE SAKU, 
The shape of the blade design is called SHINOGI ZUKURI, it is the most classic type of sword of the Japanese sword. The sword is in original polishing - great led out planes, edges,  perfectly visible hamon gunome midare, great visible hada. The blade is probably forged by a rich samurai. this is evidenced by a beautiful hamon, a precisely executed signature, and minimal few blacksmith blemishes.
A perfect example of the art of Japanese swordfish from the Muromachi period.
Smith MASAIE worked in the province of BINGO, around 1532-1555 (tenmon period).He was a blacksmith of the MIHARA school, which produced typical battle swords.



Price is 1800 € shipped which is around 1985 $. From Poland so no customs.

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Carlos M.

#9 vajo


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:30 PM

Abaris, please take a look in the sale offer here in the board. You will get nearly every day a very nice offer also from European Countries with no tax. I would not buy a unpapered mumei shinto/ shin-shinto wakizashi in shira saya for 3000 EUR. You get in this price range other more exciting swords. 


I'm with Geraint this sword for 2500 EUR is very nice. And Manuel is a trustfull seller.




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#10 Abaris


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 04:52 PM

I'll take a look at it, it's a really nice sword.

Also, do you think the one for 1800€ has a gimei? Looks legit to me but I'm not an expert.

Carlos M.

#11 francois2605


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 05:30 PM

As the saying goes, "buy the sword, not the signature".


Assume all signatures are fake unless there are papers from a trustworthy organisation (NBTHK, NTHK, etc).

-Francois R. (Paris, France)

#12 Rivkin


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:17 PM

There is always an element of impropriety for me to comment on other's offerings, because occasionally I sell myself so there is conflict of interest, but personally I don't find either of the three exciting.

Sengaku period did saw a lot of cross-breeding in terms of style, but still this Masaie looks a little bit more like generic  early shinto than typical Masaie. Its not a great signature, so not a lot of reason to fake, and maybe there was even shinto Masaie, something to check, but sue-Mihara typically does have strong hada, and still tends to do hamon in Yamashiro style.


Most of purchases today go through the internet, so ebay, stores etc. are sort of fine, with caution.


Kirill R.

#13 Surfson


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:08 PM

The first one seems to have a problem with the munemachi, has coarse, ohada, is unsigned.....but at least it is expensive!   I would avoid that one.  I'm not wild about the second one either.  I agree that you can do much better, even at Aoi arts.  

Robert S.

#14 Ganko


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Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:25 PM

The first one has a large opening near the habaki on the omote side. A serious flaw. Don't be in a hurry, take your time and I think you can do much better for the money. 

Tom C

#15 Valric


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Posted 23 September 2019 - 04:14 PM

Stay away from both. Don't touch either with a ten foot pole. 


Ludicrous prices on these otherwise close to worthless waks. 

  • Shinto era, kanbun, unsigned ~= 0 value
  • Mid-edo period from chu-saku smith wak ~= 0 value 

This deal is also known as the 'noob trap' or the 'pay your dues before you enter the hobby' trap. 


Skip on the entrance fee. 

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Chris H. 

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