Basic Tosogu Procedure as per Curran

[Curran]

 

[1]   Look at the work. Really look at it, in detail.

[2]  Then look at the signature.

[3]  Now look at the work again.

 

Does the work reflect the reputation of the signer?

Example:  https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s1233055547

 

WIthout going to Wakayama, I'll lay the odds that this one is gimei. 

Could be authentic, but I would be more interested in this kawaii little tsuba if it were not signed.

 

[Geraint]

Dear Curran.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with your approach but cannot comment on the link as Yahoo does not support service in this half of the world.

 

All the best.

[Steve Waszak]

Sound approach, Curran.  Not foolproof, unfortunately(!).     This is a very appealing tsuba whose mei appears to have been carefully copied.  I am not aware of any Myoju work whose whose aesthetic sense resembles that of this piece.  Agreed:  more appealing without the mei... 

[Scogg]

Here you go @Geraint, and those of you  who cannot open the link. 
 

I find the mimi impressive and interesting. I have not yet developed the “eye” that you tosogu folks have; but I find the piece attractive. I’ll have to practice a bit with Curran’s procedure. 

 

Could be a nice pickup for someone IF it were to sell for gimei prices.

Regards, 

-Sam 

 

[Spartancrest]

9 hours ago, Geraint said:

Yahoo does not support service in this half of the world.

How about Jauce? https://www.jauce.com/auction/s1233055547

[GreyVR]

9 hours ago, Curran said:

Does the work reflect the reputation of the signer?

I might be about to look foolish, but if I do I hope it will be a learning experience. 

I would love to hear more on how artists are tracked. I rather imagine large piles of expensive reference books, and perhaps that's the case? I had an experience quite recently like you said as I was trying to find information on a Fuchi-Kashira I own, and attempting to track the signature. The name seems to be Yasushige, and seaching on that name I found only two items on the internet. One is an amazing (and very expensive) fuchi kashira set of Shoki the demon killer and a little devil running from him. 
https://tetsugendo.com/products/yasushige

This is an artist I'd like to follow. But following the name on the internet also found a set (with menuki as well) with the same name but an added character, (perhaps a different artist?)
 


And the other is a nice enough set with added menuki, and without saying anything against them, they don't feel like they have the energy of the first work. 
https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d1211995127
https://buyee.jp/item/jdirectitems/auction/d1211995127


Is this a good example of what you mean, or is it another artist entirely and I'm in error?

(And, without a massive set of texts, is there a way I can track this artist? I have checked nihonto watch, but they had only one mention of him (though today there is also a Kozuka, but it also seems to be a third signature.) 

Edited June 10 by GreyVR

[Tim Evans]

Curran's approach is the same as what I was taught about sword kantei - look at the sugata, jigane and yakite - What does that tell you about time period, smith tradition and maybe swordsmith?. THEN look at the mei and see if it fits.

 

22 hours ago, GreyVR said:

I would love to hear more on how artists are tracked. I rather imagine large piles of expensive reference books, and perhaps that's the case?

 

Many of the Japanese books about swords and kodogu are limited publication or privately published, so very little of that knowledge has been scanned into online digital records. So yes, reference books are still required. For signatures, here are a few standards.

 

Probably the most recent and exhaustive in English, but no images of actual mei. I believe it came with searchable files in .pdf format.  https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b760-the-index-of-Japanese-sword-fittings-and-associated-artists-by-robert-haynes/

 

Anything by Wakayama is highly regarded. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/?s=wakayama

 

My go-to books with images of validated mei. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b672-toso-kodogu-meiji-taikei-by-wakayama-with-english-index/

 

Another by different authors. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b755-kinko-meikan-by-senichiro-masumoto-kenichi-kokubo-with-translation/

Edited Thursday at 09:24 PM by Tim Evans

[ROKUJURO]

18 minutes ago, Tim Evans said:

..... look at the sugata, jigane and yakite -....

Hi Tim,

what does YAKITE mean in this context? 

[GreyVR]

49 minutes ago, Tim Evans said:

So yes, reference books are still required.

I suspected it. I have every respect for people with such a library. (Though I was secretly hoping there might be a more approachable database online.) Nihonto watch seems like it's making an attempt in that direction. 

 

[Curran]

1 hour ago, Tim Evans said:

Curran's approach is the same as what I was taught about sword kantei - look at the sugata, jigane and yakite - What does that tell you about time period, smith tradition and maybe swordsmith?. THEN look at the mei and see if it fits.

 

 

Many of the Japanese books about swords and kodogu are limited publication or privately published, so very little of that knowledge has been scanned into online digital records. So yes, reference books are still required. For signatures, here are a few standards.

 

Probably the most recent and exhaustive in English, but no images of actual mei. I believe it came with searchable files in .pdf format.  https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b760-the-index-of-Japanese-sword-fittings-and-associated-artists-by-robert-haynes/

 

Anything by Wakayama is highly regarded. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/?s=wakayama

 

My go-to books with images of validated mei. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b672-toso-kodogu-meiji-taikei-by-wakayama-with-english-index/

 

Another by different authors. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b755-kinko-meikan-by-senichiro-masumoto-kenichi-kokubo-with-translation/

 

 

Largely what Tim said.

This is a very core list of the good books for the hard core collector.

 

I was looking at a fitting recently trying to kantei it to a specific maker, though it is mumei.

There is one 99.95% authoritative book in this area, and it took me about 15 years to buy a copy.

I may only use the book 1 or 2 times per year, but it is the binary [yes/no] book to have for kantei in that particular area.

 

That is all I will say for now.

After about 30 years, I've been able to narrow it down to about 20 books.  10 of those books are"must have or stay ignorant" tomes of knowledge.

 

[MauroP]

11 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

Many of the Japanese books about swords and kodogu are limited publication or privately published, so very little of that knowledge has been scanned into online digital records. So yes, reference books are still required. For signatures, here are a few standards.

Let me add Markus Sesko's Signatures of Japanese Sword Fittings Artists. I love paper books, but having it as a searchable file makes it my first choice. A must have.

[GreyVR]

The technique I use, in the absence of such a library, is much simpler. I do not buy names. I buy workmanship. If a piece is especially expensive, I'm likely to pass it by if I have no expert to consult before the purchase, simply because I'll never know if it's selling over a name. 

But I can find something that I can see is well made, of particularly well composed and buy it for that reason. If it was made last week by a great artist trying to fake a great name, he might as well have put his own name on it and I'd have paid the same.... though I doubt many great artists are doing that.

Rather I imagine less impressive people are taking unsigned work by good artists and trying to increase it's value with fake signatures. That is not to suggest that Curran is in any way incorrect, that approach is the best.

But buying 'what you see,' not a name, is perhaps second best. 

[Tim Evans]

16 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Hi Tim,

what does YAKITE mean in this context? 

When considering softmetal tsuba, then there is no direct corollary to yakite. It would apply to certain makers of iron tsuba, Yamakichibei for example. I was really thinking more about a disciplined kantei approach by looking at general factors first before judging the mei. Beginning collectors often look at the mei first and then try to rationalize what is seen in the object to fit the famous name, hoping for a horidashi. I know I did that more than once. 

[ROKUJURO]

Than you Tim, I know that.

I was puzzled as you used YAKITE in context with swords:

...what I was taught about sword kantei - look at the sugata, jigane and yakite....

and that was new to me.

[Curran]

6 hours ago, GreyVR said:

Rather I imagine less impressive people are taking unsigned work by good artists and trying to increase it's value with fake signatures. That is not to suggest that Curran is in any way incorrect, that approach is the best.

 

That is pretty much what I was saying.

It is a nice tsuba. Very nice.

If it were not so spuriously signed, I would place a bid.

 

I'm after something much bigger and should behave, but kawaii little shakudo works like this are tempting.

 

 

[zanilu]

18 hours ago, Curran said:

 

I was looking at a fitting recently trying to kantei it to a specific maker, though it is mumei.

There is one 99.95% authoritative book in this area, and it took me about 15 years to buy a copy.

I may only use the book 1 or 2 times per year, but it is the binary [yes/no] book to have for kantei in that particular area.

 

That is all I will say for now.

After about 30 years, I've been able to narrow it down to about 20 books.  10 of those books are"must have or stay ignorant" tomes of knowledge

Willing to share the books list Curran? 

 

Thank you in advance 

 

Regards 

Luca 

[Tim Evans]

5 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

I was puzzled as you used YAKITE in context with swords:

My error. Yaki-ba or yaki-ire would have been a better choice.