Ww2 shin gunto sword

[Vampyres]

Hi there I got this ww2 samurai sword the seller told me that it was made in 1939 then I took to someone who knows a lot about Japanese swords and he said that it was made in 1801 to 1850 so could be a samurai sword

 

[Vampyres]

[Vampyres]

[Scogg]

Hi @Vampyres

I have combined your topics for this sword. 
 

Please keep one sword per topic; Otherwise it will get very confusing, and you'll have several discussions about the same item happening simultaneously. 

I'm going to relocate this to the "Military Swords of Japan" section.
I think you will get better feedback there.
All the best,

-Sam 

[Vampyres]

[Scogg]

@Vampyres

I combined another new topic to this pre-existing thread...

Instead of staring a new topic for every grouping of photos, please "reply to this topic" and do not "start new topic"

[Vampyres]

Why is my hamon black?

 

[Ian B3HR2UH]

The seller is right it is probably made in the 1940's . The second opinion giver knows  nothing .

[Vampyres]

10 minutes ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

The seller is right it is probably made in the 1940's . The second opinion giver knows  nothing .

[Vampyres]

15 minutes ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

The seller is right it is probably made in the 1940's . The second opinion giver knows  nothing .

Way is my hamon line black or grey 

[Vampyres]

Second message 

[Vampyres]

57 minutes ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

The seller is right it is probably made in the 1940's . The second opinion giver knows  nothing .

Ok but I still think that it is much older than ww2 have a look at the second message 

[Vampyres]

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Your hamon is grey because the sword is not in original polish having been cleaned up by someone . The opinion you are quoting shows just how little it's author knows

[Vampyres]

The sword was out of polish wen I got from the seller I have not touch it and wen the sword is in a different light I can see the hamon line as white 

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi John!

I think you just figured out that the hamon appearance can be affected by lighting and camera angles.

 

Could you do us a favor and take a good clear photo of the top half of the nakago (tang)?  I see there is plenty of corrosion which may block anything there, but it would be nice to take a look anyway.  Straight on, not at a slant.

[Vampyres]

Ok 👍 

[Vampyres]

[Vampyres]

16 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Hi John!

I think you just figured out that the hamon appearance can be affected by lighting and camera angles.

 

Could you do us a favor and take a good clear photo of the top half of the nakago (tang)?  I see there is plenty of corrosion which may block anything there, but it would be nice to take a look anyway.  Straight on, not at a slant.

 

[Vampyres]

More photos of the tang it is the name of the maker is kanesada could be a 19th century samurai sword blade because I no a lot of ww2 samurai swords have a little bit of rust on the tang 

[Bruce Pennington]

John sent me a couple extra photos, but unfortunately, there weren't any other kanji (or stamps) that could be seen.

 

Thoughts - On the one hand, I looked over my Kanesada blades on file from WWII.  They all used the same style file marks as this one, and 2 or 3 had similar kanji for Kanesada.

On the other hand, and I'll say right up front that I don't study nihonto, but one of the signs I've seen of age is the cutting edge machi (name for that, I don't remember) starts to disappear after too many polishings, as does the hamon.  This one looks that way to me, implying age.

 

But that's the best I have on this one. 

[Ian B3HR2UH]

The mei ( signature ) is so freshly cut that it is obvious that this is a showa era blade , you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise

[PNSSHOGUN]

Agree with Ian, this is clearly a WWII period made blade. The significant rust (likely from being submerged in water) gives a much older appearance. 

[Brian]

WW2 sword. Forget fantasies about it being older. Also would likely have another nakago ana if it was refitted. Nothing there suggests older. The hamon appears that way because it has an amateur cleanup/polish. It's just showing the hardness difference. Fairly typical WW2 sword in fair condition.

[raaay]

if look real close at the last tang picture,  there seems to be a partial Seki stamp about 40 / 50 mm. down from the Mune -Matchi  !

 

 I can see why someone might think this sword  is older considering there is very little Ha -Machi there  , but it is WW11 sword IMHO .

[Scogg]

I do have concerns about the sword.
 

In my opinion, it looks severely altered or messed with.

The proportions make me wonder if it’s been machi-okuri, and the nakago looks like artificially accelerated aging rather than natural patina. That makes me question whether there might have been an effort to obscure a stamp, or make it "look" older than it is.
 

[Vampyres]

8 hours ago, raaay said:

if look real close at the last tang picture,  there seems to be a partial Seki stamp about 40 / 50 mm. down from the Mune -Matchi  !

 

 I can see why someone might think this sword  is older considering there is very little Ha -Machi there  , but it is WW11 sword IMHO .

Can you show me were the Seki stamp is

[Vampyres]

Can someone show me were the Seki stamp is 

[John C]

1 hour ago, Vampyres said:

Can you show me were the Seki stamp is

John:

I think Ray is looking here. But I can't tell because it looks as if the nakago has been repaired (re-welded?) at that spot.

 

John C.

[Vampyres]

I have cleaned the blade to see the hamon line but I have not touch the tang is  that bad or good