translation help needed for this originally (?) made blade

[kleber75]

Hello,

I got this blade together with a type 19  saber which was discussed here:

My blade has some inscriptions but i only can read them partly because they are not clear.

Interestingly the Japanese customs had no  problems with the blade because it had no authentification.

  So it was no problem to send it on the way accross the ocean 

 

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Hi Jens,

this may well be an authentic blade. The rather straight blade reminds me of KANBUN era (early EDO JIDAI). 
To me, it looks as if someone tried to erase the MEI, which was X MITSU before. 

A picture of the (vertical) NAKAGO without HABAKI (dark background, light from the side) would help further, I hope.

[kleber75]

[ROKUJURO]

Always tip-upwards of course, and presented as cut-out, if you can! The important parts to see are the MACHI - the little notches where the cutting edge/MUNE begin.
 

[kleber75]

[kleber75]

[lonely panet]

Maybe nori mitsu

[Rawa]

Some bizen smith? I would go for muromachi. Sukmitsu also is known fr making almost straight swords. Look in link.

https://nihonto.com/a-brief-study-of-bizen-blades-of-the-muromachi-era/

2 character mei for batch sword?

[Nobody]

Maybe 則光 - Norimitsu

 

[kleber75]

I see- the name is not helpful.

Can we date it according to the shape?

Or would it better to start a new topic?

[ROKUJURO]

Jens,

in evaluating a blade, the age is of lesser importance than its quality.

SUGATA and condition of NAKAGO (MEKUGI-ANA) could point to early EDO, but this may be due to the SURIAGE process. Late KOTO era is also a possibility, but to be sure, an expert will have to study the blade when it is (again) in a good state of polish. 

Please consider that in some periods of Japan's history, swords were mass-produced due to the war situation. So even if you had a 500 year old sword, it may not necessarily be a first-class one. 

What you could do as a first step is having a "window" polished by a traditionally trained polisher. This may allow you to learn more about your blade which is a genuine one with some age in my opinion.

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Jens,

As Jean has said above, the shape is similar to that seen around Kanbun - during the 1660s but, for me, other things suggest it may be older (or has just had a hard life): that the blade has probably been shortened (which may give a false impression of the shape but I think the middle peg hole is likely to be the original, perhaps with the one added at the end of the tang for a second peg), the patina on the tang is quite a deep colour, that it has been polished down with little left of the hamachi and also the two character mei is less usual in the Edo period and it is quite worn.

 

These factors might point to it being an older blade but again it could just be what it looks like but in not so good condition. The length of the blade might give an additional clue - if you were to measure that and add on the distance between the top and middle peg holes (which would indicate roughly by how much it has been shortened) then that might give a pointer but overall I think it is going to be difficult to be very precise. 

[kleber75]

it is around 75cm from the tip to the middle peg hole.

If helpful I also post the saya with which it came to me.

To my opinion it could be one of these blades delivered to the Army in WW2 when there had been shortages of blade production which forced the army to ask civilians to support the government with blade donations of old blades stored at home (exceptions were made for important family blades of cultural importance)

[Brian]

Remember that dealers also had exhibitions where they would offer a wide variety of civilian and antique blades that soldiers could purchase at varying price points and then have mounted for the war. I expect many of these swords came from events like that, or the Japanese equivalent of "Army and Navy" stores who prepped people going to war.

[kleber75]

This makes it difficult to find a suitable handle. I don't believe that such a blade fits a standard handle, as the distances between the holes often vary, and the blade handles also have different lengths and widths.

[Rawa]

Looks like long nakago

[ROKUJURO]

1 hour ago, kleber75 said:

This makes it difficult to find a suitable handle. I don't believe that such a blade fits a standard handle, as the distances between the holes often vary, and the blade handles also have different lengths and widths.

There are no "standard" TSUKA. As you say, they may look similar, but they can vary internally, and the MEKUGI-ANA positions may differ as well.

[kleber75]

23 hours ago, Rawa said:

Looks like long nakago

from machi to the grip end  around 21 cm