Damage assessment

[MaxT]

Hello fellow enthusiasts, 

 

I am a new member to this forum and started only recently collecting nihonto. A few days ago I took delivery of a muromachi period wakizashi. To my surprise however, there was a tiny chip in the hamon that was not apparent on the photo/ video material of the online store I bought it from. The store owner assured me, that this must have happened during transport. As this is a papered and polished blade, I was quite bummed about this. 

 

My question is, how bad is this damage/ kind of flaw and how detrimental is it to the value of the sword. Any opinions/ help in this matter is highly aprreciated. 

Thank you all and have a nice week. 

[atm]

Was the blade shipped in a shirasaya or other protective covering? If so, I struggle to believe that this is shipping damage. More likely, it was the condition of the blade when you bought it and the dealer is trying to justify it.

 

I am not knowledgable enough to say whether it could be polished out, but I am guessing that it could. It appears to be fairly minor. Without knowing more details about your blade, it is hard to say what effect it has on its value.

[Hokke]

Although I would call this damage more of a "nick" than a chip, it will likely have to be removed the same way, with a polish. As mentioned by Adam, I have a hard time believing this damage was caused by shipping, UNLESS, the saya is improperly fit. Looks to me like someone bumped this blade up against something hard. This may have happened after the sale pictures were taken or at some point after you removed the blade from its saya. To answer your question, it may not be worth the expense to repair this minor damage if the cost of the polish is higher than the difference in cost between what you paid and what you can sell it for. I personally would just enjoy this piece as the damage is minor and worry about values when/if it comes time to sell it.

[MaxT]

34 minutes ago, atm said:

Was the blade shipped in a shirasaya or other protective covering? If so, I struggle to believe that this is shipping damage. More likely, it was the condition of the blade when you bought it and the dealer is trying to justify it.

 

I am not knowledgable enough to say whether it could be polished out, but I am guessing that it could. It appears to be fairly minor. Without knowing more details about your blade, it is hard to say what effect it has on its value.

Thank you for your answer. The sword was shipped in shirasaya, wich fits quite perfectly. There is no movement within the shirasaya, so I was also wondering how something like this could happen. Judging by eye, it could easily be polished out, which is unfortunately not an option because a professional polish would probably cost almost as much as the blade itself.  

[MaxT]

12 minutes ago, Hokke said:

Although I would call this damage more of a "nick" than a chip, it will likely have to be removed the same way, with a polish. As mentioned by Adam, I have a hard time believing this damage was caused by shipping, UNLESS, the saya is improperly fit. Looks to me like someone bumped this blade up against something hard. This may have happened after the sale pictures were taken or at some point after you removed the blade from its saya. To answer your question, it may not be worth the expense to repair this minor damage if the cost of the polish is higher than the difference in cost between what you paid and what you can sell it for. I personally would just enjoy this piece as the damage is minor and worry about values when/if it comes time to sell it.

Thank you for the answer. The shirasaya fits quite firm, so I doubt the blade can move a lot. I do not intend to sell it anytime soon, but I am a bit worried that I may have overpaid for a flawed blade. I really liked this particular sword, as I am a big fan of the naginata naoshi shape and it came with a beautiful koshirae and hozon papers. I paid about 2k (before taxes), which I thought at the time was a great deal. At that pricepoint however a professional polish will definitely not be worth it (also the condition of the polish as of now is quite beautiful). Thank you for any further insights. 

[Lewis B]

So this was from a dealer in Japan? Can you check the photos to see if it's something you might have overlooked? Shipping damage is a stretch, especially if the seals on the box were intact. The nicks are small but might diminish your enjoyment over time (or you wouldn't have posted here). Talk to a togishi like Massimo Rossi in Italy and ask if it can be fixed without a full polish and therefore at a reduced cost, which might be justified from a value perspective. 

[MaxT]

38 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

So this was from a dealer in Japan? Can you check the photos to see if it's something you might have overlooked? Shipping damage is a stretch, especially if the seals on the box were intact. The nicks are small but might diminish your enjoyment over time (or you wouldn't have posted here). Talk to a togishi like Massimo Rossi in Italy and ask if it can be fixed without a full polish and therefore at a reduced cost, which might be justified from a value perspective. 

Thank you. Yes it is a Japanese dealer. This is the video that was provided by the dealer: 

 

as you can see, the damage is not apparent.

[Lewis B]

That video is at least 10 months old. I can't see any damage along the edge but a lot could have happened in the interim. Nice blade in good polish. I can see why you like it.

[Schneeds]

Do you have the pictures prior to the sale?  Pretty hard to say for sure from that video given the light and angle with how small that is.

 

Almost no chance that happened in transport. 

[lonely panet]

Its imho superficial and not worth the worrying over

[MaxT]

4 hours ago, lonely panet said:

Its imho superficial and not worth the worrying over

Thank you, I am glad to hear that. I am new to collecting, so it’s still a bit difficult to asses things like these. 

[Jacques]

These are things that happen when you buy without seeing the merchandise, and you should be aware that the hozon does not protect against certain defects.

[Rayhan]

Typically these small indents could be because the polisher didn't want to polish down the hamon any further so left them as is to maintain the geometry of the sword. If you want them removed the next polisher will have to change the geometry and polish the hamon down and that will be costly. You will then need a new shirasaya too.

 

The other reason it happens is because someone accidentally made contact with a hard surface (not in ancient times, I mean recently) and they damaged the sword.

 

Personal opinion, return this and get a refund.

 

If you can live with the damage then just enjoy as it is.

[Lewis B]

2 hours ago, Rayhan said:

 

Personal opinion, return this and get a refund.

 

 

Max, did you buy through the sellers Ebay account? Seller doesn't accept returns but under certain circumstances Ebay might rule in your favour if you decide to return.

There are financial considerations at play. Import duties into Germany are 19% and these may not be easily refundable (never tried so don't know for sure). Return shipping can be expensive too unless you have access to a business account. For such a small nick I'd not worry and remember, these things can happen at any time.

[Brian]

I'm of the thought that this may have been left over from a polish, where the polisher didn't think it worth removing more. A sensible decision. Of course it could have happened later, but the possibility exists it was just not shown well in the pics/video.
That said, it doesn't bother me too much. These "nail-catchers" would be far more serious on a Juyo or TH piece. But on a wakizashi of average quality, I don't think they are too serious. It's up to you and what you paid of course. But they aren't by any means a critical flaw, although undesirable.

[Jacques]

Quote

If you want them removed the next polisher will have to change the geometry

The very first thing a good polisher must do is respect the sugata. Under no circumstances should he change the geometry of the sword.

[Rayhan]

1 hour ago, Jacques said:

The very first thing a good polisher must do is respect the sugata. Under no circumstances should he change the geometry of the sword.

If you polish this Ha down by a mm the geometry will change like it or not. Good polisher or bad it's at the requests of the owner so what a good polisher will do is refuse to remove the steel any further if they feel it's unacceptable to change the geometry. 

 

Now what most collectors will do @Jacques that is frustrating, is go from polisher to polisher till they find one that says yes to the job, unfortunately. I am in your court when you say that seeing in hand is always the best path forward to avoid these issues, but we cannot always be there, again, unfortunately. 

 

 

[MaxT]

7 hours ago, Lewis B said:

Max, did you buy through the sellers Ebay account? Seller doesn't accept returns but under certain circumstances Ebay might rule in your favour if you decide to return.

There are financial considerations at play. Import duties into Germany are 19% and these may not be easily refundable (never tried so don't know for sure). Return shipping can be expensive too unless you have access to a business account. For such a small nick I'd not worry and remember, these things can happen at any time.

Yes I bought it on the ebay site but I don't really consider returning it now. Your feedback makes me feel better about it so thank you. 

[MaxT]

5 hours ago, Brian said:

I'm of the thought that this may have been left over from a polish, where the polisher didn't think it worth removing more. A sensible decision. Of course it could have happened later, but the possibility exists it was just not shown well in the pics/video.
That said, it doesn't bother me too much. These "nail-catchers" would be far more serious on a Juyo or TH piece. But on a wakizashi of average quality, I don't think they are too serious. It's up to you and what you paid of course. But they aren't by any means a critical flaw, although undesirable.

Thank you, this makes me feel better about it. The wakizashi was not super expensive, but I was still surprised because it looked almost flawless in the pictures. I wanted a long nagasa naginata naoshi wakizashi and this one ticked all the boxes (good polish, tasteful koshirae, NBTHK papers...), so I was glad to get a seemingly good deal. 

[sabiji]

It is very possible that the damage occurred during transportation.

 

I wouldn't write it if it hadn't happened to me. A few years ago, I bought a katana from a US sword dealer who is beyond reproach here. The tip of the kissaki was broken off by 3 mm when I unpacked the sword at customs in my home town. 

The kissaki was intact in the sales photos, as was the shipping packaging when I collected the sword from customs.

 

However, the package had already been opened once by customs, namely when the package arrived at the destination airport in Frankfurt/Main.

 

So if the seller is absolutely trustworthy, the tip was intact when packed, then damaged when unpacked, but the package was intact, there is not much left...

 

Apart from that, I have already discovered fingerprints when I received another blade that would never have been sent to me by a Japanese dealer. And I'm not talking about ebay here.

@MaxT, that doesn't necessarily apply in your particular case, but you can never rule it out completely.

 

[Mark]

years ago i sold a katana on eBay to a buyer in France. When it arrived he returned it as it was damaged. When i git it back the saya was cut in half. It was clear that the customs person inspected the sword, pulled it out of saya and tested it by hitting the wood saya breaking it in half. They then put the blade back in the 2 pasts and sent it to the buyer.  Hard to know how it was handled if it was inspected

 

[Jacques]

Quote

If you polish this Ha down by a mm the geometry will change like it or not

Except that when you polish a blade, if you're competent, you remove the steel evenly over the whole blade, which means that the measurements change, but not the geometry. At least, that's what Zenon Vandamme and his teacher Kenji Mishina explained to me.

[MaxT]

5 hours ago, Mark said:

years ago i sold a katana on eBay to a buyer in France. When it arrived he returned it as it was damaged. When i git it back the saya was cut in half. It was clear that the customs person inspected the sword, pulled it out of saya and tested it by hitting the wood saya breaking it in half. They then put the blade back in the 2 pasts and sent it to the buyer.  Hard to know how it was handled if it was inspected

 

wow that's grim.

[SteveM]

Hello Max,

Let me add mine to the voices who have said it is a minor flaw and not worth worrying about. Even in your photos it is barely discernable. For the price you paid, I think you've done well to get a papered blade w/koshirae. As a first blade, it is perfectly fine, and superior to the first blade that many collectors purchase, as many of us bought unspectacular or problematic mumei pieces as an entry into the sword world. 

[MaxT]

2 hours ago, SteveM said:

Hello Max,

Let me add mine to the voices who have said it is a minor flaw and not worth worrying about. Even in your photos it is barely discernable. For the price you paid, I think you've done well to get a papered blade w/koshirae. As a first blade, it is perfectly fine, and superior to the first blade that many collectors purchase, as many of us bought unspectacular or problematic mumei pieces as an entry into the sword world. 

Thank you, that makes me feel a lot better. I really like this blade so I am relieved. 

[Rawa]

On 5/5/2025 at 11:27 AM, Jacques said:

These are things that happen when you buy without seeing the merchandise, and you should be aware that the hozon does not protect against certain defects.

Hozon? Even Tokuho

[Rayhan]

8 hours ago, Jacques said:

Except that when you polish a blade, if you're competent, you remove the steel evenly over the whole blade, which means that the measurements change, but not the geometry. At least, that's what Zenon Vandamme and his teacher Kenji Mishina explained to me.

@Jacques every time a sword is polished its geometry changes, argue all you want , facts are facts

[Jacques]

No, if you have a cube with 2 cm sides and you remove 5 mm from each side, you'll have a smaller cube, but still a cube. 

[Rayhan]

1 hour ago, Jacques said:

No, if you have a cube with 2 cm sides and you remove 5 mm from each side, you'll have a smaller cube, but still a cube. 

@Jacques so to put this childish nuance to bed. The polisher be it Mishina or anyone else is not an AI based robot that operates on software based calibration like a Mazak cnc machine, you do live in reality @Jacques?

 

Each sword polisher will approach the polishing of each sword individually and over many weeks. Different pressures, stones, temperamental emotions (ie being human), etc will apply so you will not get a uniform result no matter how good the polisher is. You can give them the exact same sword 2 time to polish and without fail you will get 2 different results. Also the approach to polishing will change depending on the results that gradually form over weeks and months of work.

 

@Jacques it really is annoying that someone who perceives themselves to be intelligent comes across with misinformed statements just to make a statement. I do feel for you. If you have nothing constructive to add to a thread please stop. It's ok to not say anything sometimes. 

[Jacques]

You don't know what a good togishi can do.