Tsuba purchasing on eBay

[Jake6500]

38 minutes ago, Tcat said:

Curious statement… it’s a theme that crops up all the time in tosogu. 

 

Oh I know, it's just a mental thing on my part. My comment was about my own preferences and biases.

 

Every time I see one a voice in my head just screams "what if it's modern?"

 

In any event, it is unlikely I will ever add any skull designs to my own collection.

[Spartancrest]

9 hours ago, Jake6500 said:

it is unlikely I will ever add any skull designs to my own collection.

Fair enough not everything will appeal to everyone - I am not a huge fan of skulls either, but a few head or face ones do tick my boxes. 

 

[not fond of the decapitated designs] 

 

 

I like Mempo ones as well, but they are few and far between [not to mention expensive]

[pin yin]

Hi @Tsuba Dan its possible enjoy with some pics of your collection for understand better what you say? thanks!

[Dan tsuba]

Hello pin yin!  Welcome to this great forum.

I have included some pictures of a small portion of my collection as you requested.

I have bought all the tsuba shown on eBay for about $150.00 U.S. or less within about the last 3 years.

Many members would probably not even consider collecting these type of tsuba because they probably wouldn't consider them high end enough.

But I enjoy collecting these low end tsuba (they don't strain my wallet, and if I do get bit with purchasing a fake or reproduction I don't lose a lot of money!).

If you know how to discern an actual Edo period tsuba from a fake or reproduction tsuba, I think there are still deals to be had on Ebay!

And someone has to give these tsuba a good home!

 

 

[jawob]

Interesting conversation. This seems to be an age old collecting debate. I'm not a tsuba collector but this issue covers swords in particular. For me, it is much easier to buy say a $5000 sword on the lower tier than laying out $10k for something special. Either purchase from reputable dealer, if sold down the road, would be lucky to break even but most likely sold at a loss. Seems the best way to come ahead is arm yourself with a lot of knowledge, time and patience. Very difficult hobby.

[ROKUJURO]

.....arm yourself with a lot of knowledge, time and patience.....

That's it! 

[Alex A]

Had a brief spell on ebay this morning. Reminded of what an horrible experience it is, sifting through junk and scams.

 

There is good stuff, though a lot is well overpriced. 

 

Always left with the thought that sellers are fishing for idiots.

[Dan tsuba]

Hey pin yin,

 

Like jawob stated- “Seems the best way to come ahead is arm yourself with a lot of knowledge, time and patience. Very difficult hobby.”

 

But then again I have seen over the years on various threads on this forum that even knowledgeable collectors are sometimes ripped off.

 

Remember, there are no guarantees (that I have seen) given along with any tsuba purchase.

 

Even the NBTHK papers that a collector will pay a lot extra for that may come with a tsuba could be incorrect or misleading in their description of the tsuba.

 

Eventually, if you wish to collect tsuba you are going to have to make a purchase.

 

I found that a good thing to do is find a highly experienced member on this forum where you can send pictures of the tsuba that you want to purchase and get their opinion of the tsuba before you purchase it.

 

But it is only their opinion and again there is no guarantee that they are 100% correct.

 

Perhaps finding what you consider a reputable dealer is good.  But that will take some purchases of tsuba and time to figure that out (unless you can make contact with some very experienced members who maybe can direct you to a reputable dealer that sells tsuba in you price range – whatever that price range is).

 

I have found that there are (what I consider to be) reputable sellers on eBay.

 

But they will not consistently post tsuba on Ebay, it varies (of course) on what they purchase and then post on Ebay.  So, it can take weeks before an Ebay seller that you determine as reputable will post his tsuba for sale.

 

Again, my personal saying is if I don't spend a lot I can't get ripped off for a lot!

 

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

 

Good luck and have fun with the hobby!

 

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

32 minutes ago, Dan tsuba said:

 

 

Again, my personal saying is if I don't spend a lot I can't get ripped off for a lot!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Must be reassuring.

[Dan tsuba]

So Alex,

From my entire post, once again someone picks out one sentence and comments on it (and then places what they consider a funny emoji about their reply).

What are your thoughts about the rest of my post?

Any comments on that?

[Alex A]

I was laughing at your buying tactic, not my reply. 

 

Its ridiculous logic.

 

Anyways, not going to go around in circles again about wasting money and encouraging others to do the same.

 

Horses for courses

 

 

[Dan tsuba]

Well Alex,

I was just trying to help the new guy out.

 

You stated-

"I was laughing at your buying tactic, not my reply. 

Its ridiculous logic.

Anyways, not going to go around in circles again about wasting money and encouraging others to do the same."

 

It may be ridiculous logic to you, but maybe not to a new collector that may have limited funds.

I am not encouraging others to waste their money. 

From  what I can derive from your statements, you think a new collector should waste their entire bankroll on a perfect tsuba that may end up being a fake or a reproduction. 

Like I stated before, I have seen where even knowledgeable collectors on this forum have gotten ripped off.

Perhaps maybe with some judicious looking on eBay, a new collector of tsuba can find some great values like I have over the years.

They can always ask for help and assistance from members of this forum before making a purchase.

Are you a dealer of tsuba?  You sure reply like you are.

My opinion.

 

 

[Alex A]

I don't know much about tsuba, Dan.

 

Know enough to know that no amount of money should be wasted.

 

 

 

 

[Dan tsuba]

Alex,

You stated-

"Know enough to know that no amount of money should be wasted."

What you consider a waste of money by others is not your decision to make.

You are entitled to your opinion, just as other are entitled to consider what they determine as a waste of money.

Have you seen my post on this thread of the tsuba I purchased on eBay?

I would not consider those purchases a waste of money.

Again, I was just trying to help the new guy out.

What are you doing to help him? Are you advising him to spend his bankroll?

My opinion

[Alex A]

Dan, your talking like you haven't spent anything. Add up all those tsuba you have bought and im assuming it will be a significant amount of money.

 

My advice to newbies is if you plan on buying lots of mediocre tsuba for $150 (or less) a piece, don't, save and buy better examples.

 

You will appreciate them more and probably re- sell them an hell of a lot faster.

 

Repeating myself again, so said what i needed to say .

 

Think maybe you are in for one hell of a learning curve when one day you sell some of your collection, that's being honest.

 

 

 

Goodbye for now,

[Dan tsuba]

Alex,

And there is the difference between you and I.

You stated-

"My advice to newbies is if you plan on buying lots of mediocre tsuba for $150 (or less) a piece, don't, save and buy better examples.

You will appreciate them more and probably re- sell them an hell of a lot faster."

Also ypu stated-

"Think maybe you are in for one hell of a learning curve when one day you sell some of your collection, that's being honest."

 

I don't collect tsuba to resell them (or anything else that I collect).

The "one hell of a learning curve" that you stated is not my concern.

I am not looking for a profit from my collection.

I collect to enjoy and keep what I have.

Obviously, that is not what you do.

You probably colllect to resell and make a profit.

For you, I think it is all about the dollar bill.

My opinion.

[Alex A]

Ok, no worries.

[Dan tsuba]

So, pin yin.

Here are some more tsuba in my collection that I purchased on eBay for about $150.00 U.S.

I think you get the idea that there are still values to be had on eBay!

The first picture shown below is a daisho (small and large sword) tsuba set.

 

 

[Charlie C]

Hi,

 

This is a very interesting post which revealed the two major philosophies regarding tosogu collection. Dan, I definitely respect your idea of sharing your experiences about how to find interesting tsuba on eBay. Apparently you have been doing well with your philosophy of buying anything available and pleasant to your taste. I personally am a practitioner of the other philosophy that other kind people posted about saving money and buying more expensive tosogu that very likely with higher qualities, but I agree with you that if you are not interested in re-selling your collection and enjoying your current practice, you should keep doing it. The ultimate goal of anyone who buys tosogu should be to please themselves, then maybe gain some economic profit in due course.

 

I am against some opinions indicated in this post that expensive tosogus are always better than cheap ones, or cheap ones are all of poor quality; but it is true that tosogus of higher qualities are very rarely cheap. So my suggestion to new buyers is that one should probably find as many examples as possible online or in books to decide for oneself what 'good quality' means, then join the trade with cash. I believe this should be true in any collection, not just tosogu, that browsing provides more info to new buyers than buying.

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Charlie C., welcome to this great forum.

I appreciate what you stated in your post.  It was well stated and is a good guide for those that are starting a collection of tsuba.

I agree that the money one wishes to spend most likely has to do with the eventual reselling of the piece.

Since I have about 200 tsuba in my collection, my objective is for me to keep them and enjoy them and not resell them.

There is a lot of learning to be had from even inexpensive tsuba.

My philosopy is don't change a winning game, always change a losing game.

I beleive that I am winning with my inexpensive purchases of tsuba on eBay.

For me it is all about what one can afford at the time of purchase and what new motifs and designs can be added to the collection.

Onward my friend!

 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

5 hours ago, Alex A said:

Know enough to know that no amount of money should be wasted.

Alex what other purpose does money have? All money is ultimately wasted - that is how governments work . You can't take it with you when you die and leaving it to the kids just puts them on the same roundabout.

Money is the ultimate slavery tool - get rid of it. Hell 90% of people wouldn't go to work if they had to do it just for fun, wages are a form of enforcement to keep the masses busy.

[This political broadcast was brought to you by the money lenders association and the guild of "Make me richer than the Plebs"] 

[Alex A]

I understand your philosophy Dale.

 

All i will say and keep it short because dont want this topic flying off into space.

 

A new philosophy soon arises when you find you have no money.

 

Anyone can find they lose their job, the misses wants half the house, whatever etc etc. Maybe im a little odd in that i like to see purchases hold their value.

 

Its not about buying stuff to make money.

 

I know people with "you only live once attitude so have fun and buy what you want".  Anyways, going off track but they were never any happier.

 

Back to eBay. Dont know if you saw the wanted thread on pine tsuba. Found five or more dealers on eBay all selling the same tsuba. I dont like ebay.

 

Ive bought cheap tsuba too, from folks here.

 

 

[Spartancrest]

2 hours ago, Alex A said:

Found five or more dealers on eBay all selling the same tsuba. I dont like ebay.

Not a fan of ebay - far too many "proxy sellers" which is an indication of corrupt practices that ebay allows [probably endorses]. What does the ebay platform care as long as they get their cut?

I know a lot of other sites do the same, so it is up to us [the buyer] to look a little harder for the original seller - he/she is also getting their reputation damaged.

 

Can anyone remember when the airlines were closed for shipments around Covid lockdown and the spike in shipping fees that were "temporary"? They never did go back down did they!

[pin yin]

Thank you for your kindness @Dan tsuba. I'd be delighted to learn about reliable eBay sellers if it's not a problem for you. I don't have much experience either. I loved your tsuba with the bird in the tree and the man running in the rain. Thanks to the others, I understand your opinion too, but I'm on a tight budget.

[Dan tsuba]

Hello pin yin,

About reliable eBay sellers.

I sent you a personal message through the forum.

I don't want to tie up this thread, and we can discuss stuff.

In the meantime, my friend, maybe you could review the below thread-

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

4 hours ago, pin yin said:

.......I'm on a tight budget.

That will apply to most of us, so that is a good reason not to waste your money on crap TSUBA. It is certainly not about resale value to make money, but on general value. Some day, someone will have your TSUBA, and only better quality items will keep their value (or even increase in value as we learn from the past). Cheap items, on the other hand, will mostly remain cheap stuff even after a few hundred years.

You will find good craftsmanship only in good TSUBA which you can study and learn from. This quality relation is not restricted to TSUBA; it is the same all over the world with any hand-made object. 

There is a saying that you always "buy yourself".....If you judge your self-esteem low, then buy cheap stuff.

[Brian]

I don't think what Dan has is crap by any means. There are collectors for every level and there are some nice tsuba there. And to each their own. 
BUT...it is important to acknowledge the fact that is is always good advice to buy ONE very good item, than accumulate 20 average ones. We might choose not to go that route...but at least acknowledge it is good advice. I don't even follow it myself, as spending is spread over a great time, and if I save up a decent amount, it is better spent on bills and debt. Easier to pay out small amounts without missing it too much. BUT...I'll never recommend that as good advice. But ONE good item if you can. You'll learn a lot.

I'll leave this with the ever-so-common event that I find myself in, buying knife collections here. I soooo often get someone calling me to sell me their husband's "extensive" knife collection. I go there expecting to find some good knives mixed in with average stuff. And to give the lady a decent amount of money. Only to regularly be met with a 100+ collection of gas station and Chinese flea market knives, none of them worth more than 5 bucks. I have to decline and explain. It's not a pretty sight.
So yes, you may not plan on selling. But someone is going to have to, at some point. Luckily there is a market for antique tsuba...even average ones. But always keep this in mind. And even if you choose not to follow the advice, it is still best to pass it on to novices as best practice.

[Shugyosha]

@pin yin just to back up what Alex, Jean and Brian have said - I would suggest that you will quickly grow tired of generic items in poor condition - I've got a bunch of rusty metal in the shed that I never give a thought to.

 

Save for a while, do your research and you will be able to afford an item that continues to give you pleasure and educate you and this need not be super expensive. For me, the sweet spot in collectiing comes where you can identify items that punch above their weight in terms of quality for price paid which is where the fun comes if your budget is not unlimited, as is the case for most of us. 

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Pin Yin,

 

I just wanted to share with you what I consider my prized possession of my tsuba collection.

 

I purchased it on eBay, but not for my usual $150 dollars!

 

It is a finely carved tsuba with a crane above and a turtle below.

 

Those two symbols have deep symbolism in the Japanese culture.

 

Notice how wonderfully carved the crane is.  You can see the beautiful feathers,

and even the grainy textures in its legs.

 

The turtle is also nicely carved.

 

Then on the reverse of the tsuba (called the ura side of the tsuba), notice how beautifully the waves are carved and seem to be in motion.

 

It is one of my treasures!

[Alex A]

Pin Yin.

 

This was a good thread to read through.