what i just did on Ebay...

[45blues]

Hi all, newbie here. i've been a custom knife addict for many years and recently got into this vicious "nihonto" world.

i do have 1 very nice Bugei cutter and cheness springsteel katanas in my collection but looks like it's my first "real" nihonto.

i've researched a little bit but as you know, to a newbie, this is a whole new world, so i decide to "DO IT" first, then ask later.

here's the direct link to the Ebay item that i won few hrs ago.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0265007155

 

my winning bid was based on my own price criteration, just my opinion as a "knife collector"

whatever the Mei says, it would be more than 1hundred yrs old traditional tamahagane sword from Japan, and i just thought that real nice (imho,too) horimono worth more than 2K. (damascus microtechs cost more than that..) so i did it, already paid, and would like to hear some opinions about this buy from Senior Nihonto collectors.

and im also considering to get a decent Koshirae for this blade, i think i need some help on that one too..

replys and Pm's both are appriciated.

 

thanks!!

 

CJ

[Bugyotsuji]

No-one else seems to be around at the moment.

 

Welcome to the site. You have done what I was repeatedly warned against, ie plunge in and buy something and then study retrospectively. :lol:

 

If you are prepared to learn, then having something to hand may be a way of getting your heart into it.

 

Your sword is advertised along the top of the page as 'Bizen' but actually it is not Bizen, but Onomichi in Bingo, at least 100 km west of Bizen. So don't confuse the Shigemitsu of Osafune in Bizen with the one you have bought, ie Shigemitsu of Onomichi in Bingo.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Greetings all,

 

Welcome to the site. You have done what I was repeatedly warned against, ie plunge in and buy something and then study retrospectively.

Piers, you're a true diplomat at heart!

 

CJ, please forgive the forwardness of this response, here are a few important vocabulary words for study at this point in time; kizu, shintetsu, ware, ato bori. When it comes to nihonto "It's never easy!", as one good nihonto friend always reminds me.

[loiner1965]

buying on ebay is a big gamble unless you know exactly what you are buying, i am far from an expert on nihonto but i can see flaws on the blade and will always be wary of any horimono or kanji inscribed on the blade itself as it usually is there to hide a serious flaw...i actually saw this myself on ebay and instantly moved on....these guys on here are so knowledgeble and are willing to help us amateurs out freely so thats why i ask before i take the plunge....admitedly it looks lovely and i hope you are pleased with it

[45blues]

thank you guys, no offence of harsh word taken.

when everytime i tempt to purchase something, almost every ebay sellers are a bunch-o-birds of pray look alike.

newbie's learning, now i could barely see the differences between Tact. knives market and Nihonto market.

i just contacted with seller for a refund process. As I claimed for poor item description, i guess i have right to take my money back.

let's see how it goes.

 

and of course, i should be more careful on next purchase. shhhhh

 

 

CJ

[45blues]

mods, would you please move this thread to the right place? i guess i had posted in wrong spot.

thanks!

 

CJ

[shan]

I must admit i am a little confused by this thread.

Are you saying that you bought an item on ebay based on your own very limited knowledge of Nihonto,Decided after winning & paying for it ,to "run it by" this message board and because you did not get the WOW responce you had hoped for ,then decided to reject the item " As I claimed for poor item description"???? Did you research the mei then?check it out before you bid?

Usually you have to have the item before you complain but more importantly the mei is clearly there for you to see as is the Kizu and the poor horimono,most would have checked the mei out BEFORE buying the item to determine if it was genuine or not.I wouldn`t buy a blade for $500 based on someone saying "this mei i guarantee to be genuine or your money back"how would you enforce that?

So my point is this......If the forum had said "Oh we are so jealous of you, thats a really nice blade ,Such forging and craftmanship ,look at that jihada and the activity,Wow!! it may be Gimei but its a truly quality piece you got that at a excellent price."............. Would there then be a problem?? I doubt it.

People bidding on high value items and then renaging on the sale because you got "cold feet or changed their mind" shouldn`t be allowed on ebay,you waste time and you waste money and the person you outbid ,who did check the item out properly and decided the price was ok, may now have bought something else and no longer have an interest.

What is your intention? to bid on sword after sword, then once you have won one ask the forum for a thumbs up or down?

then If its thumbs down get a refund?

I have blades with Hagire that i could not get a refund on because hagire is a collectors term and is not a recognised flaw by paypal or ebay,you think a mistake in translation will work?

You took a gamble ,so live with it and next time ask first.

I`m sorry and i know i wont make any friends here, but this is wrong IMHO

regards

Shan

[Jean]

CJ,

 

my advice:

 

Stay shut of e-bay not only on Nihonto items but equally on all antiques.

 

You should get better offers from NMB's members in the sale section

[Thierry BERNARD]

...

You took a gamble ,so live with it and next time ask first.

I`m sorry and i know i wont make any friends here, but this is wrong IMHO

regards

Shan

 

you have on friend here : me

[huntershooter]

Count me in Shan. Well put!

[45blues]

I must admit i am a little confused by this thread.

Are you saying that you bought an item on ebay based on your own very limited knowledge of Nihonto,Decided after winning & paying for it ,to "run it by" this message board and because you did not get the WOW responce you had hoped for ,then decided to reject the item " As I claimed for poor item description"???? Did you research the mei then?check it out before you bid?

Usually you have to have the item before you complain but more importantly the mei is clearly there for you to see as is the Kizu and the poor horimono,most would have checked the mei out BEFORE buying the item to determine if it was genuine or not.I wouldn`t buy a blade for $500 based on someone saying "this mei i guarantee to be genuine or your money back"how would you enforce that?

So my point is this......If the forum had said "Oh we are so jealous of you, thats a really nice blade ,Such forging and craftmanship ,look at that jihada and the activity,Wow!! it may be Gimei but its a truly quality piece you got that at a excellent price."............. Would there then be a problem?? I doubt it.

People bidding on high value items and then renaging on the sale because you got "cold feet or changed their mind" shouldn`t be allowed on ebay,you waste time and you waste money and the person you outbid ,who did check the item out properly and decided the price was ok, may now have bought something else and no longer have an interest.

What is your intention? to bid on sword after sword, then once you have won one ask the forum for a thumbs up or down?

then If its thumbs down get a refund?

I have blades with Hagire that i could not get a refund on because hagire is a collectors term and is not a recognised flaw by paypal or ebay,you think a mistake in translation will work?

You took a gamble ,so live with it and next time ask first.

I`m sorry and i know i wont make any friends here, but this is wrong IMHO

regards

Shan

 

hello there shan, thank you for your opinion.

yes, i did on my own research on this but that was totally "BASED ON SELLER'S AD" so it was "Shigemitsu of BIZEN ", not the "Shigemitsu of Bingo".

i think the "mistake in translation" is the MAJOR poor item description, especially for someone who can't be able to read Japanese or chinese letters like me.

all of my research was based on provided item description, and found out that was not true, then what should i say. would you get the point?

as far as i know, the name of bladesmith is kinda like a "brand name" in nihonto market. yes, i did something wrong, but obviously this seller did too.

if this seller wants me to pay some kind of "cancellation fee" or whatever, i'd pay for it, i think that would be able to cover my mistake.

my intention about this thread was, i just wanted to know what i bought, i didn't really wanted to bash on this Ebay seller or start something like bad seller warning.

i even know that i can't.

i'm really sorry if my thread made you uncomfortable, but i don't really want to discuss nothing more than the item.

thanks for your time and absolutely no offence taken. i do really understand your point of view.

to be perfectly honest with you, my heart says exactly same thing with you but my ca$h cold brain says "NO WAY"

and hey, i do really want to make some friends here.... would you pm me how did you figure out this horimono is poor? to me, it just looks so cool..........

 

all the best,

 

CJ

[Brian]

CJ,

Normally I would step in and caution people for their tone and tact. However in this case they are essentially correct, and I hope you will see it as a firm way of trying to guide you in the future, and not take offence. This seller is well known and pretty fair and honest, and he pictures all the faults so that you can make up your own mind. Buyer remourse isn't a good reason to back out of a sale, especially when all the info was right there.

 

eBay is a minefield, and there are very few bargains. If something goes low, it is due to a reason. We always caution people to buy books forst, learn a lot, then learn some more..buy more books, and only them can you think of making a purchase. You can always ask here first before you commit, but we don't encourage backing out of a sale.

 

It is Mike's call what he does now, although he has no obligation to refund you. If I was you, I would explain nicely that you are new, you made a mistake, and will cover ALL of his listing and other fees. Then it is up to him.

 

Take it slowly. Nothing good comes from rushing in. Stick around, read a lot here, check out all the links pages, and you will be ready for a purchase in a while, and we will be happy to guide you.

 

Regards,

Brian

[45blues]

thank you so much brian, i'd say live and learn... i'll call my self as a "DARN NEWBIE" for a while..

shame shame!

 

DARN NEWBIE

CJ

[Stephen]

Only a fraction of swords sold by Mike are his, he sells for dealers in Japan, and the Bishu is Bishu not Bingo or Bizen, eazy mistake when you list as much as him. Brian has you in the right direction.

[Kevin]

when everytime i tempt to purchase something, almost every ebay sellers are a bunch-o-birds of pray look alike.

 

A little immoderate. :-) Whilst there are sharks on Ebay (and one or two that I’ve officially complained about), there are also some honest dealers. Mike Yamaguchi (komonjo) is, in my experience, one; Kanetoyo is another. In other cases you have folks selling Japanese swords who haven’t got the faintest idea of what they’ve got, and who are unable or unwilling to do the macro photography necessary for a potential buyer to make up their mind. They are not usually sharks – just ignorant.

 

In my opinion – I can’t speak for anyone else – it is not good business to rip off customers. It is good business to provide a good service, by having people feel that what they’ve got in exchange for their money is a fair exchange, and that the whole transaction has been a pleasure. That also means going the extra mile – finding a particular sword for someone; trying to find something that they have failed to find elsewhere; finding time for someone to come round and look at a sword (and having a cup of coffee ready for when they arrive); or being prepared, if it is at all practical, to take the sword round to their place if they are at all serious about buying it.

 

Sure, cock-ups happen. If it is your fault as a seller, you just apologise, sort it out, and try to make sure that it doesn’t happen next time. If the customer has made a hash of things, try and help. Cock-ups happen in all sorts of ventures. From a customer’s POV it doesn’t however mean that someone is trying to rip you off.

 

That’s general business principals as I see them. I have used Ebay in the past, and I’ll probably use it again in the future. However, it doesn’t matter whether you’re selling out of a bricks and mortar shop or Ebay, or whether you’re selling widgets or nihonto. I would imagine that all of the good dealers, whether on Ebay or not, follow similar principals. After all, you can’t buy a good name, but it is worth more than money in the bank.

 

and of course, i should be more careful on next purchase. shhhhh

 

As has often been said here, buy books and ask questions here before you commit. :-) In the meantime, as Brian said:

 

It is Mike's call what he does now, although he has no obligation to refund you. If I was you, I would explain nicely that you are new, you made a mistake, and will cover ALL of his listing and other fees. Then it is up to him.

 

Mike will have paid out various fees, and may have to relist, so it would be a nice gesture. From practical experience, courtesy and politeness go a long way. :-)

 

regards

 

Kevin

[drbvac]

On the other hand, I too have bought stuff - found it not exactly as described - But - kept them anyway and as long as you dont intend to list it again yourself and are not going to spend any more money on it for shinsa or polish maybe you paid what its worth. For sure you paid what yourself and the other bidders think its worth. If you are not intending to sell it yourself - learn from the blade, keep it as a first purchase and carry on. I he had said it was by a bishu smith would you have kept it? I would hate to count the stuff I have bought that no one else likes!

[kusunokimasahige]

After reading all this i am thinking of starting a collection of fake nihonto......

 

LOL

 

at least thats affordable.......

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

but seriousely, you made a mistake, and well its not that ugly a sword anyway...

 

why not keep it???

 

If you dont know a lot about the various smiths or styles, this sword is a very nice study piece...

 

and well if you like/want real swords for a real price, try nihonto.ca

 

KM

[sencho]

Caveat Emptor matey!

 

Mike listed the swords and showed close ups of the flaws. He correctly translated the Bishu on the mei.

 

He offered a reasonable return policy, and he will honour those policies as far as I have known him, but otherwise what you see is what you get.

 

You should be more angry at yourself, than angry at Mike!

 

Cheers!!

[45blues]

i don't really feel angry or displeased with this seller any more.

i already asked him for forgiveness about my rude behavior, but he didn't get back to me yet.

i know i made a mistake, have to cover that, learned the lesson.

that's why im keeping my mouth (or fingers) shut.

thanks for all the comments.

 

DARN NEWBIE

 

CJ

[Kajihei]

....but he didn't get back to me yet.

 

Dear CJ,

 

I heard that Yamaguchi-san's father passed away last week and that the funeral is scheduled for this week. It may take some time before he replies but be patient.

 

Kaji

[45blues]

i just heard about his loss via email, may God Bless him & his family at this trying time..

he also took care of the mess that i've done, he charged me nothing... no nothing...

shame on myself.

thanks to all...

 

DN

CJ

[Bugyotsuji]

i just heard about his loss via email, may God Bless him & his family at this trying time..

he also took care of the mess that i've done, he charged me nothing... no nothing...

shame on myself.

thanks to all...

 

DN

CJ

 

Sorry to hear about the news.

 

Don't take it too hard. I stand by what I said, DN. The title on the web page said 'Bizen'. Bi is made up of Bizen, (Literal meaning: before Bi) Bichu (middle Bi) and Bigo, or Bingo (After Bi) going from Edo. Altogether they are collectively known as the Provinces of Bishu.

 

The blade is inscribed with Onomichi, which puts it in Bingo, of the larger area of Bishu.

 

I did not mean to make any judgement on the relative merit or worth of Onomichi in Bingo, compared with Osafune in Bizen. All I did, if you look at the original post, was to clarify the nature of the article.

 

If my post was misleading, then I must apologize for being part of the problem. I meant no disrespect towards the seller, but simply to point out that his use of the word 'Bizen' at the very top of the auction page was not quite accurate.