Juyo swords found in Shin Gunto Koshirae

[sbf]

Steve,

I remember that auction! Wasn't he nihonto777 or the such? A lot of high quality blades, he sold. Unless it was a private seller, I can't recall. All I remember is a near mint Gassan Sadakatsu with high quality fittings with a general frade tassel.

The story was that the Marine who found it was taken by a Japanese POW to the graves of two high ranking officers and this blade was on top. Stayed with the family until 2005(?) when it was sold on eBay. Right before Letters of Iwo Jima came out if I remember, but sounds supiciously like the end of the movie, so coulda been after. I'm pretty sure it was right beforehand. Last I recall, it sold for 20k.

No, the seller was a private individual in upstate New York. He didn’t know what he had, just said it was a samurai sword brought back from Iwo Jima, and that some of the proceeds were going to be donated to some charity. He was clearly an inexperienced ebayer, and I knew the sharks would be circling bombarding him with lowball offers. Although I wasn’t in a position to buy it at the time, I wrote the seller urging him to resist the offers and let the auction run its course, simply because I hate to see anyone get fleeced. He responded, thanking me and explained the whole story. The sword was brought back by his brother(a Marine) from Iwo Jima. He had recently passed away, and the seller was selling it for the widow. He had no idea it was so valuable. He sent me a copy of a photo showing the guy cutting his wedding cake with it after the war! It ended up going for 15k. After the auction he again thanked me. He clearly idolized his brother, who went on to a career in the Secret Service. I had no reason to doubt his story, and still believe it had a very real chance of being Kuribayashi’s sword. Regardless, it was a beautiful Gassan in high end mounts with a general’s tassel.

 

Steve

[Kolekt-To]

Per request, I will post photos of the Sanemori sword here - originally posted earlier today under the "Show us your high-class Gunto" thread in Military Swords of Japan category on this board. I had the pleasure of visiting with my local mentor again recently and this is one of the swords he showed me. This sword had been in Japan for months waiting to be papered. My mentor received it back last week. A fine Gunto indeed!

[PNSSHOGUN]

This Hatakeda Sanemori sword was not with military mounts, but was reportedly in the possession of General Sadao Araki.

 

https://www.tsuruginoya.com/items/f00670.html 

 

Quote

During the feudal era, this sword was passed down through the Akimoto family of the Tatebayashi Domain in Kozuke Province. It appears to have been purchased at the auction of Viscount Akimoto's family treasures held at the Tokyo Art Club on May 4, 1931, and left the family. It later came into the possession of General Araki Sadao, and includes a handwritten inscription on the scabbard. The original embossed markings indicate two mekugi holes and a kurijiri (a raised, chestnut-shaped) tang end. However, the current blade has two of the four mekugi holes, a kiri (cut) tang end, and slight wear to the edges. The blade length, as listed in the sales catalog, is 2 shaku 5 sun 5 bu (77.3 cm), but its current length is listed at 2 shaku 5 sun 4 bu (77.0 cm), a mere 1 bu (0.3 cm) shorter. It's possible that General Araki had a custom-fitted sword mounting for his own use, possibly even modifying the tang, but the mounting itself is not included.

 

[When Necessary]

Earlier in this thread, there was mention of the General's Gassan from Iwo Jima which appeared on eBay 20 years ago. I have a file on it somewhere but here are a few shots I had on my phone.

[John C]

Wow. at 8,500 the reserve was met! Do you know where it ended?

 

John C.

[David Flynn]

I know of a "GO" that was bought off another collector and was in Shingunto mounts.  It was O'suriage.  The NTHK, gave it as Shinto, however with decent polish, the NBTHK, gave it Go.

[When Necessary]

1 hour ago, John C said:

Wow. at 8,500 the reserve was met! Do you know where it ended?

 

John C.

Hi John, 

I believe that someone else in this thread said it ended at $15,000.

[Brano]

6 hours ago, David Flynn said:

I know of a "GO" that was bought off another collector and was in Shingunto mounts.  It was O'suriage.  The NTHK, gave it as Shinto, however with decent polish, the NBTHK, gave it Go.

... and the blade passed through Juyo and immediately after that also Tokubetsu Juyo

[Lewis B]

55 minutes ago, Brano said:

... and the blade passed through Juyo and immediately after that also Tokubetsu Juyo

Was that one of the Go's Andrew polished?

[David Flynn]

Yes.

 

[Lewis B]

Spectacular sword.

[When Necessary]

Interesting, so a sword which a non-Japanese polished passed Tokuju.

[Brano]

17 minutes ago, When Necessary said:

Interesting, so a sword which a non-Japanese polished passed Tokuju.

Andrew is fully trained in Japan.
I also know of two togishi who work in Japan and are foreigners.

[When Necessary]

3 minutes ago, Brano said:

Andrew is fully trained in Japan.
I also know of two togishi who work in Japan and are foreigners.

Bully for them - Jolly good show 👏👏

 

i just never thought that even a fully apprenticed gaijin would ever be let anywhere near the big boys' toys. 

[Brano]

37 minutes ago, When Necessary said:

Bully for them - Jolly good show 👏👏

 

i just never thought that even a fully apprenticed gaijin would ever be let anywhere near the big boys' toys. 

Here are examples of three different blades polished by gaijin
BTW - the waiting period is over 2 years for his work

[When Necessary]

4 minutes ago, Brano said:

Here are examples of three different blades polished by gaijin
BTW - the waiting period is over 2 years for his work

It's beautiful work from what I can see. How many Japanese collectors does he have as customers?

[Brano]

6 minutes ago, When Necessary said:

It's beautiful work from what I can see. How many Japanese collectors does he have as customers?

We are compatriots, that's why he accepted my order
Basically all his customers are Japanese

[When Necessary]

Just now, Brano said:

We are compatriots, that's why he accepted my order
Basically all his customers are Japanese

I can't begin to understand how such commissions arise between craftsmen and their clients but I wish him well in what is obviously an already successful business.

[Brian]

1 hour ago, When Necessary said:

Bully for them - Jolly good show 👏👏

 

i just never thought that even a fully apprenticed gaijin would ever be let anywhere near the big boys' toys. 

Andrew is recognized even in Japan as a top notch polisher. I would trust him with any sword.

[Lewis B]

Yes, Andrew won a prize in this years NBTHK togishi competition. I would put him up against any top level Japanese polisher. His work speaks for itself. Checkout his FB page to see examples of his work including the 2 Go's he's worked on. 

[Tcat]

2 hours ago, When Necessary said:

I can't begin to understand how such commissions arise between craftsmen and their clients but I wish him well in what is obviously an already successful business.

 

It's very simple really. When you're good at something, people who know quality will find you and won't care if you are 'gaijin' or not.

[When Necessary]

4 hours ago, Tcat said:

 

It's very simple really. When you're good at something, people who know quality will find you and won't care if you are 'gaijin' or not.

That's about to change in Japan with the new political moves afoot. Being a 'gaijin' is going to matter a great deal - especially in an ultra-conservative, nationalistic group such as the sword world.
With Komeito ditching the LDP, the latter are going to try to team up with Sanseito and other anti-foreigner parties to regain their majority. 
Welcome back 1930s.

[Tcat]

2 hours ago, When Necessary said:

That's about to change in Japan with the new political moves afoot. Being a 'gaijin' is going to matter a great deal - especially in an ultra-conservative, nationalistic group such as the sword world.
With Komeito ditching the LDP, the latter are going to try to team up with Sanseito and other anti-foreigner parties to regain their majority. 
Welcome back 1930s.

 

The sword world is so ''small and getting smaller'' that for the sake of its own continuation simply can't afford to pick and choose. Meanwhile for the record, exclusionist policies while romantic are doomed to eventually fail and their proponents destined for pariah status.

Edited 13 hours ago by Tcat

[When Necessary]

12 minutes ago, Tcat said:

 

The sword world is so ''small and getting smaller'' that for the sake of its own continuation simply can't afford to pick and choose. Meanwhile for the record, exclusionist policies while romantic are doomed to eventually fail and their proponents destined for pariah status.

Well, I'm meeting a member of the Japanese cabinet tomorrow so I'll ask him what he thinks. 🤔

But that is neither here nor there and I've brought this thread completely off topic for which I apologize - the topic is far too interesting to be derailed.

 

So.... I was once offered a third generation Muramasa in a gunto koshirae and have always regretted not taking out a bank loan to buy it.

There were definitely high-status blades taken to war by those who had the right family, the right rank or the right bank balance.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing of more (no matter who polished them).