Shin gunto with older blade(Mumei)

[m4l700]

Greetings everybody!

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29141-two-guntos-for-review/

 

On the above link I've posted two of my gunto's for review. However, one of them(sword#2) is quite a mystery so far and it was suggested that I would try and ask in this section.

 

What do you think about this one if I may ask? It seems to be quite hard to determine a possible period( I know that is difficult from pictures ). What is also interesting is the shorter nakago on a katana sized nagasa?

 

Smith: ? Mumei, but Kanesada line was suggested.

Date: unknown, however some people suggested that it might be Muromachi, Shinto or Shinshinto period(?). It's all over the place

Nagasa: 65cm(25.59 inch)

Nakako: 14,5cm (5.70 inch)

Sori: Unknown

Hamon: (?) Realy hard to determine

Hada: Hard to tell for me

Fittings: Mid-war fittings with closed and gold plated/brass(?) (cast-iron)tsuba and parts.

Saya: Outside and inside wood, because of the 'older' blade?

Photo's:

 

Thanks in advance!

 

David

[16k]

Hamon: gunome midare

Hada: hard to tell but I think I see some masame in the shinogi ji and near the kissaki. Could be wrong though.

What is that mark I can see near the first mekugi hole? A scratch or the remnant of a mei?

Holes here been drilled, not punched, which would suggest recent.

But sugata, still a mystery to me...

[m4l700]

Anyone with another thought about this blade?

 

It is still quite the mystery to me

 

Thanks!

[paulb]

In it's current condition making any really objective comment is difficult. However I think it is most likely a shinto blade rather than a showa piece. So as you suspected an earlier blade mounted for use in WWII. Until there is more to see in hada and hamon going much further will be challenging. 

[Death-Ace]

I agree with Paul. It looks more shinto, maybe mid-Shinto (1700s)? It looks to be a nice, healthy blade with some minor loose grain? It may be photos, but it almost looks acid polished, although I think it is just the view.

 

I would attempt more pictures in natural sunlight or a black background. Blades are difficult things to photograph when not in perfect polish, and even then can be a pain.

[vajo]

Looks like a kaga smith work. Is this a kanji under the habaki?

[ROKUJURO]

Chris,

this is called IRIYAMAGATA JIRI.
 

Typical KAGA NAKAGO looks like this:    http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26827-signed-and-dated-katana-by-kaga-masakuni/

[m4l700]

Thanks for the comments everyone, much appreciated.

 

I've just removed the habaki and there is no kanji underneath. In fact, there is nothing I did hear more people pointing towards shinto and the 1700's so we probably can conclude thats the period for this sword.

 

I might get some more proper photographs in sunlight soon.

 

There is another dilemma in my head for this sword. I realy like the hamon, or what is left of it and cant even imagine what it would look like when polished. So that is maybe another step for me and this sword, getting it polished. I know there is no financial gain, but I just want to give the sword a polish that it maybe deserves. I'm not looking for a proper professional Japanese polish, I dont think it's worth sending back to Japan, they probably wont even do it.

 

But is there anyone in Europe, or even the Benelux who might want to give this sword a polish? Is there anyone who can be recommended? I want to have this done next year, so I have patience

 

[m4l700]

Some time later, and the blade is still in my possession, but it is still a bit of a mystery to me with the time period. The blade feels strange and yet interesting with a short nakago and shallow sori. However I do think that the top part of the nakago has been cleaned when the habaki was made/fitted, the patina seems strange in that area.

 

The top mekugi-ana is the original one and the bottom one is drilled(?) for gunto koshirae. If the sword was made during shinshinto times, why is the nakago so short? It feels like a wakizashi sized nakago but with a blade length of a katana. It seems out of proportion, I am trying to wrap my head around this.

 

Gave the blade carefull and good clean and decided to make some additional pictures for future reference or for more information about the blade itself. Anything is welcome.

 

[Dave R]

On 3/30/2021 at 2:11 PM, m4l700 said:

The top mekugi-ana is the original one and the bottom one is drilled(?) for gunto koshirae.

 

 Blade up or blade down?

 

[m4l700]

46 minutes ago, Dave R said:

 

 Blade up or blade down?

 

With the blade pointing upwards. The one closest to the habaki is the original hole.