Tsuba -Help

[raaay]

Help please , I think I have the Seiryuken  part correct but struggling with the Soshu  style signature . 

 

 

1-  Choshu tsuba ?  signature partial removed  ?  with seal

 

2. Seiryuken - on the left  with seal , I think ?  

 

many thanks,

 

 

[TETSUGENDO]

Ray,

 

Signature number 2 is that of Seiryuken Eiju, Tetsugendo school.

 

Cheers,

    -S-

[raaay]

Steven

 

many thanks for your help  ,  are you confirming  the signed side with seal is  saying Seiryuken Eiju  .

[raaay]

Perhaps an additional  photo of tsuba No 1 may help with the school and translation.

 

many thanks,

[Greg F]

Hi Ray can we see a picture of the tetsugendo tsuba please.

 

Cheers

 

Greg

[TETSUGENDO]

Hi Ray can we see a picture of the tetsugendo tsuba please.

 

Cheers

 

Greg

I think we'd all like to see it!

 

-S-

[raaay]

as requested . tsuba measures 74mm x 70mm

[raaay]

still no opinion's on tsuba no 1.  which I think maybe  a Choshu school  tsuba , with a sukashi style /  rice grain design ?

 

anyone going to have a go at the signature for me please, Steve has already confirmed the school and signature re tsuba No2

[SteveM]

For sure the design is rice plants ready for harvest (稲穂)  but the signature is a complete mystery. 

 

Usually a 3-kanji signature on a tsuba is an "art name", and often these end in predictable kanji: 亭　斉　堂　軒 etc...

But this isn't any of those, and the two preceding it are equally opaque to me. 

[raaay]

Hi Steve

 

 I wonder if the seal / kao will  help with  this one    and if you are toiling , I have no chance, thanks for trying.

[SteveM]

I looked at the gold seal (印銘) hoping it would give me a clue, but its another dead-end for me.

I think the symbol on the right is 正, but that only narrows it down to about 5 million possible names. 

The kanji are cut cleanly enough, and there is no rust obscuring them, and only slightly cut off by the addition of the hitsu ana, so hopefully somebody will recognize this name.

[raaay]

Afternoon Mods,

 

 I wonder if  this post could or should be  moved to the Tosogu section  to see if there are more opinions  on the Choshu style tsuba  please.

 

many thanks.

[John A Stuart]

OK Ray> John

[raaay]

John

 

many thanks,  let see if I get anymore help / info  from the Tosogu experts here .

 

PS - have you not got a similar style tsuba on your web site !!

[kissakai]

My similat tsuba is Choshu (Hagi)

[raaay]

Grev

 

thanks for the Choshu " link " I thought that would be a good call , just waiting for someone to nail the signature or the kao  !! I hope .

[kissakai]

Hi Ray

As above it is Seiryuken Eiju + kin in (kao not carved)

Tetsugendo school circa 1800

Haynes Index No H06602.0

There are a few signed in my book of tsuba from the Birmingham Museum. One showing a similar style to yours

The problem now is the mei on the opposite side and as there is a gold kin in could it be a collaboration of two makers?

 

 

Grev

[raaay]

hi Grev

 

not sure what you mean when you  say,  the kao is not carved , I need to double check but the gold Kao is inset into the tsuba plate and polished flush with the surface   not just painted on !

[kissakai]

I didn't want to use the normal kao term

The kao are in the majority and are carved and unfilled

[raaay]

I am still looking for help with the Choshu signed tsuba - anyone going to have a go !

[TETSUGENDO]

Ray,

 

I've been expecting a certain party to weigh in but, so far, he is MIA......keep your fingers crossed.  Meanwhile enjoy it, it's a fine example!

 

-S-

[raaay]

 

Steven

 

ok my fingers are crossed too.

[raaay]

 

still keeping my hopes up that someone can nail the signature or inscription on the Choshu tsuba !!

[raaay]

 

 

I have posted my tsuba on a friends face book page , and I got a response from a nice Japanese gentleman, suggesting the translation was , "yuuraku-dou " meaning, yuuraku is relax,

no worry and enjoy one's self and Dou meaning a person living in a temple or people who like culture and art ! and he thought it might be of the kinai school ?

 

any body think this is a correct interpretation of the translation .

[SteveM]

Yes, I think he could be correct. I'm away from my books. Maybe some other intrepid person can take a look to see if there is such a metalworker in the references. But I think your contact nailed it. He may be a bit loose with the meaning, but I think he's figured out the kanji.

 

遊楽 = pleasure, amusement, recreation

堂  = literally means hall, auditorium, pavilion, but in this case it is just part of an art name. It is a common kanji to use in an art name. I don't think it means an art-loving person, but perhaps this gentleman is on to something that I am not aware of.  

 

遊楽堂

 

Yū    https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/w_taigo/28439248.html

raku  https://ryohkei.com/kanji-gaku-cursive-2-233.html

dō　https://word.4ndex.com/name/4/257-dou.html

[raaay]

Steve

 

again many thanks for your input and I am glad you agree it is on the right track for the translation of the tsuba.

 

 

you mention loose translation! but could that be because converting from your own language to English is sometimes just difficult to get the exact comparison or translation !

[raaay]

just a heads up !! 

 

I was just going over an old post of mine, and  when checking a link sent to the board re the possible translation  for the meaning of  " YU RAKU DO "  my virus checker immediately blocked a   TROJAN attack .