Japanese Razor (Orihi) Which Era Or Japanese Sword Smith?

[fikira]

Hi,

I have 2 Orihi of which I would like more information about its age and maker.
I know these razors where made by Japanese sword smiths, hence my question here

Does anyone knowns more about these?

First is most probably signed [重芳作] Shigeyoshi (not sure though). I haven't found anything about him...

 

 

Second one is (for me) a special one, not only the very simple stamp, but also the Omote side reveals more then one "layers".
Normally, a piece of Tamahagane is forged onto a layer softer steel, giving a line at the edge between Hagane and Jigane.
Here it appears to be more layers of steel, never seen anything like it

 

 

Does anyone recognise these marks or way of forging?

Thank you very much!

[uwe]

Might be “重芳作”?

[Brian]

Wondering if the second one isn't actually made from a broken section of a sword. If it had hi, and was ground down, you might end up with a shape like this. Repurposing?

[ROKUJURO]

FIKIRA,

what is your name? Please sign all post with your first name and an initial as is requested here.

Compared to KAMIZORI, these razor blades look unusually crudely made to me. The signature looks Japanese though, otherwise I would not have believed these to have been made by Japanese craftsmen.

I am not familiar with this subject, so this is only a newbie's impression.

[fikira]

Might be “重芳作”?

 

 

Wondering if the second one isn't actually made from a broken section of a sword. If it had hi, and was ground down, you might end up with a shape like this. Repurposing?

 

 

FIKIRA,

 

what is your name? Please sign all post with your first name and an initial as is requested here.

 

Compared to KAMIZORI, these razor blades look unusually crudely made to me. The signature looks Japanese though, otherwise I would not have believed these to have been made by Japanese craftsmen.

 

I am not familiar with this subject, so this is only a newbies' impression.

 

Thank you for your responses!

 

So, for the first one, it is confirmed to probably be 重芳作 Shigeyoshi.

Anyone knows who he is, and when this Orihi could be made?

 

The second one is trickier indeed... 

The shape is definitely typical for the old Japanese kamisori - Orihi, I've made an article of them:

https://historyrazors.wordpress.com/2016/05/28/history-of-orihi-type-kamisori/

(also see the Ukiyo-e)

 

IMHO I don't think it could be a piece of sword, because of the tremendous effort to grind the sword piece into this very fine razor.

I rather think it is forged that way, that said, it seems like a very simple mark, isn't it? 

Have you seen something like this before?

 

Thank you very much!

 

Regards,

Jethro DK

[fikira]

FIKIRA,

 

what is your name? Please sign all post with your first name and an initial as is requested here.

 

Compared to KAMIZORI, these razor blades look unusually crudely made to me. The signature looks Japanese though, otherwise I would not have believed these to have been made by Japanese craftsmen.

 

I am not familiar with this subject, so this is only a newbies' impression.

By the way, my signature wasn't showing, not because of me I'm afraid...

[Jean]

I added it to your profile Jethro, so don’t bother with it anymore...

[fikira]

I added it to your profile Jethro, so don’t bother with it anymore...

Great! Thank you very much Jean!

 

 

[John A Stuart]

I remember some time ago razors being made from unrecoverable swords by a fellow, name eludes me. John

[fikira]

I remember some time ago razors being made from unrecoverable swords by a fellow, name eludes me. John

Hi, yes indeed, that is true, but made at present-ish time.

They don't look like the original Orihi as well. Also, with the machines we have today, it is possible.

But this Orihi, with its dark oxidation, very old rust, yasuri-me, mune-machi, and so on, is for me more then evidence enough

to say that this isn't a presently made Orihi, it is a genuine ancient one.

In those days, it seems a lot more difficult to make an Orihi out of a sword piece. 

It would have been easier just to forge a piece of Tamahagane onto another piece of softer steel.

[ROKUJURO]

Jethro,

it is considerably easier to forge a razor out of a piece of a sword blade than using TAMAHAGANE. A sword blade is made of refined steel, and you have only to give it the desired shape. For a skilled smith this is easy enough. 

Using TAMAHAGANE means you have to fold it at least 10 - 12 times to get malleable homogenous steel of some quality. That is a lot more work, and you have to consider a material loss from fire-welding of at least 30%. 

[fikira]

Jethro,

 

it is considerably easier to forge a razor out of a piece of a sword blade than using TAMAHAGANE. A sword blade is made of refined steel, and you have only to give it the desired shape. For a skilled smith this is easy enough. 

 

Using TAMAHAGANE means you have to fold it at least 10 - 12 times to get malleable homogenous steel of some quality. That is a lot more work, and you have to consider a material loss from fire-welding of at least 30%. 

 

Hi, as I said: "with the machines we have today, it is possible." In modern times this could be done, I'm sure, but we're missing the point a bit.

My thread is about my 2 Orihi, of which I'm pretty sure they are made before 1800's. In those days swords and Kamisori/Orihi were made of Tamahagane combined with their sideproducts or other steel. I don't know why we need to ask ourselves the question if these are razors made

out of a sword piece. In that period they were used making these razors out of Tamahagane... (see my article, these Orihi were very typical

and in use for a very long time).

 

After some more work on the second Orihi, I've seen that the Hagane part also has different layers, this together with my previous made

arguments are proof for me that these Orihi are made by a sword smith.

Also, isn't it more obvious that a sword smith stamps his work when it is truly made by him, and not forged out of a sword piece?

 

My questions are merely: is there knowledge about a sword smith with mei 重芳作, and is the does anyone recognise this way of forging?

 

Thank you very much for your efforts!

 

Really appreciate it!

[SteveM]

There is a line of knife-makers with the Shigefusa name. It continues to the present

http://kajidojo.com/meister/shigehusahamono/

 

There is a WW2 swordsmith who used Shigefusa.

http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords4/KY328933.htm

[fikira]

There is a line of knife-makers with the Shigefusa name. It continues to the present

http://kajidojo.com/meister/shigehusahamono/

 

>> Thanks, yes I know him, he started with Iwasaki https://historyrazors.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/iwasaki/

 

There is a WW2 swordsmith who used Shigefusa.

http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords4/KY328933.htm

 

>> Very interesting, but this is 重房作 Shigefusa and not 重芳作 Shigeyoshi I'm afraid...

 

Still, thank you very much!

[SteveM]

Oops, my mistake. Couldn't find anything with 重芳 (except for the piece in the original post, coming from auction sites)

[fikira]

Oops, my mistake. Couldn't find anything with 重芳 (except for the piece in the original post, coming from auction sites)

 

No problem, thank you anyway!

It seems to be a difficult one...

[uwe]

“芳” can also be read as “fusa”, but I’m afraid that doesn’t help......

[fikira]

“芳” can also be read as “fusa”, but I’m afraid that doesn’t help......

It depends, if there is a sword smith named Shigefusa who's mei  重芳 is we're there! 

Thank you very much for the interpretation and the effort!

 

Really appreciate it!

[uwe]

Thanks!

But also like Steve, I couldn’t find anything... ????

[ROKUJURO]

Hi, as I said: "with the machines we have today, it is possible." In modern times this could be done, I'm sure, but we're missing the point a bit.

My thread is about my 2 Orihi, of which I'm pretty sure they are made before 1800's. In those days swords and Kamisori/Orihi were made of Tamahagane combined with their sideproducts or other steel. I don't know why we need to ask ourselves the question if these are razors made

out of a sword piece. In that period they were used making these razors out of Tamahagane... 

Jethro,

 

I think you should not exclude the recyling thought categorically. Smiths have always repurposed steel from suitable sources like arms and tools, Using pieces of a sword for a razor blade will not end up any better or worse than a good quality of TAMAHAGANE (of which there are several grades). In addition to that, there is no simple way of telling whether a blade was made from 'scrap' or genuinely from processed TAMAHAGANE.

 

You need no machines at all to forge a razor blade from a piece of a sword blade. You could come to my place and watch me doing this! I have both, broken swords and a forge!

 

What astonishes me on your blades are the longitudinal lines/scratches. Are they traces from grinding (really hollow grinding, which you don't see on traditional KAMIZORI) or traces of MASAME HADA?

[fikira]

Jethro,

 

I think you should not exclude the recyling thought categorically. Smiths have always repurposed steel from suitable sources like arms and tools, Using pieces of a sword for a razor blade will not end up any better or worse than a good quality of TAMAHAGANE (of which there are several grades). In addition to that, there is no simple way of telling whether a blade was made from 'scrap' or genuinely from processed TAMAHAGANE.

 

You need no machines at all to forge a razor blade from a piece of a sword blade. You could come to my place and watch me doing this! I have both, broken swords and a forge!

 

What astonishes me on your blades are the longitudinal lines/scratches. Are they traces from grinding (really hollow grinding, which you don't see on traditional KAMIZORI) or traces of MASAME HADA?

 

Could be, I still don't think that this is forged out of a sword piece, but I surely believe steel from sword, nails, ... could be recycled, and maybe into this Orihi, there is indeed no simple way of telling, but thank you for your reply and explanation! 

 

About the longitudinal lines, on the Ura side, I don't know, I see this often at other Orihi,

even on some kamisori (especially the elder). They could be grind marks.

I believe the Omote side is more interesting, further polishing (still not there where I wish it to be)

reveals these multiple lines:

 

Is this recognisable?

 

 

Thanks!