RLDRIVER Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Hi All Thank you for letting me join your forum. I am a collector of mainly British swords to WW1 (although i do have a growing interest in Shin Gunto). I was at an auction recently and impulsively bought a collection of books on Nihonto. Doing research after the event it seems that 'The Sword and Same' by Joly and Inada might be important. The little info i have gleaned is that it was first published in 1913, limited to 200 copies and was the first book printed in English on the subject. I was hoping if anybody here would be able to confirm that my copy is one of those 200? I am enclosing pictures to help. I would be very grateful for any info and possible confirmation. Roy. Quote
Geraint Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Dear Roy. While I cannot authoritatively state that yours is a first edition I can confirm that it is not the 1962 reprint by the Holland Press which states that it is a reprint of the 1913 edition. I think yours is first edition and therefore a good find, well done! I have not recently searched for this book and so I can't tell you much about prices but I think we are in the collectors book realm. Should you feel the urge to sell any of the other Nihonto books then the For Sale section here might be a good start, (self interest showing there I know.) Welcome and all the best. Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 3, 2018 Author Report Posted October 3, 2018 Hi Geraint. Thank you for your reply and link. I was quite excited by what i discovered and that it might be important! I would be interested in selling the 'Book and Same' if it a first edition as it would be wasted on me. The other books are 'The art of the Japanese sword' BW Robinson 1961 and 'The Japanese sword' by Hakasui 1948 and some ephemera. I shall get pictures etc and post to For Sale. Thanks for your help Quote
kissakai Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 I would have though that the early pages would have shown it was a limited edition - but what do I know about books It is a nice find A search on the internet should give you an idea of value but ignore some values that are stupidly high and if the item is out of stock All my tsuba are very cheap when they are out of stock! Quote
Geraint Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Images 1 and 2 Grev. Date, limited edition and number. All the best. Quote
Guest Rayhan Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 How come this is in the for sale section? Nice find btw! Quote
Gakusee Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Looks like mine, which is also an original edition. You will also recognise it is one of those historic books by the way the back section is bound and the chapters are done Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 It appears to be the original edition, but best to have it examined by a good vintage/antiquarian book dealer. The offerings I have seen over the years ranged between 300-1000 USD. Good find! -S- Quote
Stephen Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 I thought it was in For Sale...wont be able to afford at -S- quotes. Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 3, 2018 Author Report Posted October 3, 2018 Responses greatly appreciated! Images 1 and 2 Grev, Date, limited edition and number. All the best. What is Grev? How come this is in the for sale section?Nice find btw! Noob error Looks like mine, which is also an original edition.You will also recognise it is one of those historic books by the way the back section is bound and the chapters are done Thats encouraging. The page numbering is a bit hit and miss and the section on swordsmiths is printed on a different type of paper to the rest of the book. Although solid i wouldn't test the binding too much. Does have a lovely old book smell. I have bought old books before (literature first editions) and Abe books usually digs me out of trouble but not this time. I did see a listing on Ebay.com that mentioned the 200 copies. Listing had disappeared when i went to look again. Quote
Stephen Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Cant use word sword...crazy yes...UK rules. Quote
Geraint Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Sorry for the confusion, I was addressing Grev who posts under the name Kissaki and asked the question. It's not some esoteric book collecting term as far as I know. All the best. Quote
Gakusee Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 By the way, Grey Doffin has a couple of cheaper copies due to some condition issues. Quote
Pete Klein Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 This is a first edition. I have one here. A picture of the cover would confirm for most others. I did a new search on the two major on line book resources abebooks.com and bookfinder.com (I keep up with these regularly) and they had two first editions available, one a around $630 (US) and the other at $500 US or best offer. The latter has been listed for some time and is also on Ebay. It's a book for book collectors as the information is available in re-prints along with most of the works done by Henri Joly. The reality is that although at one time these first edition books were highly prized and very expensive those days have unfortunately gone away due to digital content availability. IOW's - if you want to sell the book don't be unreasonable in the price. I hope this helps. PS: the pages which have collotype printing should have a glassine type see through paper to protect the pages, sometimes with printing on it. There is one in the picture above for the title picture. Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 3, 2018 Author Report Posted October 3, 2018 Cant use word sword...crazy yes...UK rules. I have been embroiled in the latest legislation. Signed the petition and filled the feedback form. Can do no more. Hopefully common sense prevails. Sorry for the confusion, I was addressing Grev who posts under the name Kissaki and asked the question. It's not some esoteric book collecting term as far as I know. All the best. I had come to the conclusion it meant Graded evaluation This is a first edition. I have one here. A picture of the cover would confirm for most others. I did a new search on the two major on line book resources abebooks.com and bookfinder.com (I keep up with these regularly) and they had two first editions available, one a around $630 (US) and the other at $500 US or best offer. The latter has been listed for some time and is also on Ebay. It's a book for book collectors as the information is available in re-prints along with most of the works done by Henri Joly. The reality is that although at one time these first edition books were highly prized and very expensive those days have unfortunately gone away due to digital content availability. IOW's - if you want to sell the book don't be unreasonable in the price. I hope this helps. PS: the pages which have collotype printing should have a glassine type see through paper to protect the pages, sometimes with printing on it. There is one in the picture above for the title picture. Thanks for the info Peter and giving me an idea for price. I will attach a picture of the cover to see if that helps confirmation There are a few paper covers over pictures in the book. I will check that all pictures have them Quote
Pete Klein Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 This book might have been re-bound. The cover looks like the original 'boards' were either worn or damaged with the original cloth covering being removed and transferred to new boards. Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Pete appears to be correct, the binding definately looks reworked. -S- Quote
Gakusee Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 My book is number 139. So, you can see the primitive, crude guillotining of the pages, the intermediate translucent rice paper with inscriptions overlaying and covering the images on the following proper pages , etc etc. Looks and feels antique. Only the top edges of the pages have guilding, while the other two edges are very crudely cut , as though someone used blunt scissors that frayed the edge. Quote
TETSUGENDO Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Michael, The 'rough' edge you note is called a deckle edge, it is a reference to classical hand bookbinding and is meant to denote quality. -S- Quote
Gakusee Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 Thanks, Steven, I guess I am used to the mor contrived and symmetrical (artificial) deckle edge of imitations while this here is the genuine artefact. The book comprises different grades and shades of paper and indeed seems to have been almost hand-bound or collated. In any case, do not wish to hijack the thread but the publication is quite interesting, if extremely heavy to read - virtually indigestible. 1 Quote
Surfson Posted October 3, 2018 Report Posted October 3, 2018 I believe that I have a first edition too. The book is not wildly popular, and isn't that hard to find, though you can see ones with crazy prices on them. Of course, I have had mine for two or three decades, and things may have changed! Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Posted October 4, 2018 This book might have been re-bound. The cover looks like the original 'boards' were either worn or damaged with the original cloth covering being removed and transferred to new boards. Ah yes. I see what you mean. At the same time it looks similar to Michael S's copy with brown cover over blue. My book is number 139. So, you can see the primitive, crude guillotining of the pages, the intermediate translucent rice paper with inscriptions overlaying and covering the images on the following proper pages , etc etc. Looks and feels antique. Only the top edges of the pages have guilding, while the other two edges are very crudely cut , as though someone used blunt scissors that frayed the edge. Snap. Top of pages are gilded and long edge is rough. Thats good. So i assume that the blue number 36 on the reverse of the title page is its issue number? the publication is quite interesting, if extremely heavy to read - virtually indigestible. Probably the main reason i will sell. Definitely a better home for it somewhere. I believe that I have a first edition too. The book is not wildly popular, and isn't that hard to find, though you can see ones with crazy prices on them. Of course, I have had mine for two or three decades, and things may have changed! Wow. Thats 1.5% of them accounted for Pete, Gakusee, Surfson - Might i ask a favour that you could check the last page of the index? I am not sure if the last page of it is missing. Last page is xxvi with final listing being for Yukinobu. Next page lists other works of H.Joly. Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Posted October 4, 2018 While i am here. There where some old letters that came with the books. Thought they might be of interest to you. Quote
Pete Klein Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 "Last page is xxvi with final listing being for Yukinobu. Next page lists other works of H.Joly". That is correct - nothing missing. Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Posted October 4, 2018 "Last page is xxvi with final listing being for Yukinobu. Next page lists other works of H.Joly". That is correct - nothing missing. Thanks Pete! Quote
Brian Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 ....Osafune was a village famous for it's Bizen swordsmiths who swarmed xxx like bugs in a decayed stomache..." ??? :rotfl: Maybe we need a pharmacist to see if I decoded that correctly. Quote
RLDRIVER Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Posted October 4, 2018 ??? :rotfl: Maybe we need a pharmacist to see if I decoded that correctly. You did a better job at decoding than me! Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.