Vermithrax16 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Posted October 20, 2017 I cannot add to what Michael S has posted and I thank him and Ray for some great insights on doing your homework. Thank you very much, it is appreciated. I will now do the photoshop close check of blades. Maybe the only thing I can add is to always ask for a "real light" picture of any sword that only has scans for the pictures. I find it very hard to evaluate a blades polish state from a scan. Maybe I am just dumb or missing something (very possible!) but a real light picture is something I always ask for after a bad purchase decision I made that would have been avoided had I done so. To the original question a bit down in thread, no way did I see the crack from the Aoi picture. But I also did not guess the end of "The Usual Suspects" like everyone I have ever met have stated they knew 10 minutes into the film
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 For me anyway, by stating that the blade is suitable for Iaido practice implies that it is structurally sound Not sure this true. Although we don't strike real targets in my ryuha - that is, we're not supposed to - I doubt there's an iaidoka anywhere who hasn't struck the floor a few times. My Sensei did exactly that a few years ago, & a few inches of his broken blade went flying across the floor, straight at ME! So you can imagine what would have happened to this blade under the same impact. Sorry, but I don't buy from Aoi any longer. 2
Guest Rayhan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 My my what went on whilst I was sleeping? Michael I hope you're not a chef cause this dessert is more like Swiss cheese. I do not want to keep going round in circles on such an issue but slander is what is being thrown about here and it's a bit of a witch hunt if you ask me, like everyone is waiting for a reason to call out a dealer which is unfair as they are not here to defend themselves but depend on many visitors to this site for business, so fact is, you are pushing a one sided offence on people that have no way of countering and that is weak. The Bizen blade - This sword has been discussed to death previously. But since you served it to me, The Oshigata provided by Aoi is a plus when buying any sword, something many dealers do not do but I know that they enjoy putting them together so it a nice way of preserving a memory of a sword someone bought even if they(the buyer) sell it later. It is the interpretation of one person's view as with any man made drawing if I asked for your Oshigata it would differ from what the Juyo or Aoi Oshigata looks like. To be honest if we are not all looking at the Boshi in the same light we will all see a different (not wildly) density to the Boshi. Many times swords are said to have no Boshi but after a fine polish they are revealed. Again we all know what magic a polisher can do. Why would they show the Juyo Oshigata and then intentionally photoshop the picture without photoshopping the Oshigata, they are setting themselves up for a fall right. Could it be that out of the 100's of swords prepared for the internet listing on their site there was a small mistake here, scans are done in sections and put together, no scanner (or very few) are that large that they will accommodate these blades in full. So perhaps we should ask and leave guilty verdicts for when it is proven so. The juyo Oshigata doesn't show the pitting or opening in the Boshi on this blade also (page 3) ....Who you gonna call? The "Kizu" in the Shinogi near the Bo-Hi is more likely a defensive mark from combat and in a sword this old it would be expected to have this kind of damage, Tsuruta did not deny it was there, I have seen Tokuju with chunks sheared off the Mune and still fetching high prices. fact is if you're spending your hard earned cash on something do the research no matter what it is you are buying. And if the person you are accusing is not available to defend themselves then maybe show us your correspondence of accusations and their rebuttal so everyone can make an informed decision. The blatant disregard for balance in these arguments is disturbing especially coming from such scholars and gentlemen. In my experience Aoi is a wonderful team of dedicated individuals who help beginners and seasoned collectors alike. I have bought swords from many dealers but the service and respect I have recieved and the respect returned to the team at Aoi is for a reason, they have been the best in my experience. Just my opinion. Ray
obiwanknabbe Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Posted October 21, 2017 well here is the update.. not really sure what i should do.. They will take the return.. shipping and fees on me... option one.. OR... they will refund me 50,000 yen (440 usd) for the inconvenience and i keep it. Does anyone know what the reg fee is in Japan? I would like to justify the math.
Guest Rayhan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Kurt, I am not sure where you are shipping from and with what service but generally to get the license again in Japan will be around 6,300 Yen Ray
Jean Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Kurt, Wrong question, it is not a money matter.....
Shugyosha Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 If you came in with the intention of an opinion on a flaw, ok, but the lead up to slander is never ok. Ray, I wouldn't have posted at all if it hadn't been for the attitude taken by you towards Kurt's misfortune and I certainly did not post out of any desire to defame Aoi Art. I hope that you never find yourself in a similar position to Kurt because I suspect that you would require a good deal more sympathy than you gave to him. Kurt, How much out of pocket will you be with the refund? My feeling is get rid. The sword has next to no value in its current state and you will be stuck with it as there will be little chance of selling it on except at a huge discount: take the smaller hit on the shipping/ fees but get your money back, put it down to experience and use the money to buy a better blade - go see Mr Singer about his Hizento. Best, John 1
Guest Rayhan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 John, I'm not sure why you are quoting me and centering it around yourself, but the attitude is only after seeing that it was warned against and then after seeing the faults were there (no attempt to conceal) and who hasn't been where Kurt is now. anyone who has been collecting has been there but it is nothing to cry about. Fact is that we bought swords (good buys or bad) because we liked them and at that moment it was the right thing to do. Chill buddy. One should not expect too much sympathy if research is not done and after being warned still flying so close to the sun.... Ray
Shugyosha Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Ray, I really don't know what you are talking about. I quoted you because you were implying that I was making defamatory statements about Aoi and that that was my reason for posting and I felt that I needed to clarify why I posted what I did. I can't see what point you are trying to make - my post was about you and your attitude towards Kurt. I can't see anything in the previous thread that warned Kurt not to buy the sword because it had a large crack in the tip. Lots of people looked at the thread, a number commented, none picked up on the crack. Sadly, Ray I'm not your buddy and I probably never will be as I have a distaste for being patronised and find the ability to empathise with one's fellow man to be an important quality in the friends I choose. Best, John
Guest Rayhan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Don't be sad John. It's ok. You're taking my post way too heavy-heartedly
obiwanknabbe Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Posted October 21, 2017 i think it's going back.. The money is not what's important.. even getting a refund, ill have a 2700 dollar sword that i don't love... Tsuka is cut oddly as well. like it wasn't made for the sword. Mekugi holes are unevenly placed. Pin sits at a slant. No, this won't do. I will write them back and thank them for the offer, but respectfully decline.. One day i'll find one that suits me.. until then.. The hunt will be on again.
Gakusee Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Good decision to return it, Kurt - if you are not happy with it, it will bother you and your eyes will be drawn to the crack. Rayhan - let us not diminish the discourse and keep it courteous and balanced. I have kept my statements factual and balanced, highlighting positive experiences and negative experiences with Aoi. Let me address some of your points: - dessert could be savoury as well and in fact, cheeses are often a dessert course but I like the analogy as indeed the whole issue with that Kunimune blade is pungent all right. And so is Kurt’s blade. The crack should have been m ti Ned by Aoi , even if it is not particularly discernible in photos. - the Saburo Kunimune blade was not discussed to death. There was another blade where the oshigata was aspirational. In fact,there are many examples where Aoi shows a healthy, full boshi and in the Juyo papers or actual pictures there is a sliver of hamon in the kissaki - you are contradicting yourself: You state the Kunimune blade was discussed to death and you knew about the issues with it. Therefore, by implication you would have known about the Photoshopped area. Yet, you dare claim we slander when we say Aoi Photoshops pictures and exaggerates in their oshigata - the Kunimune Juyo excerpt was there for a while but then it as not accessible for a while.... - private correspondence is private and not for public boards. I shall deign an explanation though as you are so “politely” requesting it. We were discussing another blade with Tsuruta san, one which had a clear kirikomi. Not the Kunimune. Tsuruta san acknowledged the kirikomi in his email to me , so that was good - kirikomi are angular (often triangular or prismatic) in shape. They are normally in the mune and sometimes in the shinogi are. The Kunimune opening does not look like a sword kirikomi as it is roundish with jagged edges. It is a flaw from some impact, unclear what. Aoi is a volume player. As we have said before, some of the errors are just that - unintentional mistakes. But sometimes the practices are (un)savoury (pun intended). I have not seen Darcy or Fred or Kurokawa san in Japan or Takahashi san or Iida san etc etc ever Photoshop flaws. Anyway, my posts are to highlight potential pitfalls. A blade is best inspected in hand unless you absolutely trust the online dealer. One can do well with Aoi but one needs to be experienced and reasonably shrewd.
Guest Rayhan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Michael Cheese is served either before dessert or on its own unless specifically requested as a dessert in which case it is usually paired accordingly. I was referring to the fact that your theory and statements are full of holes, much like Swiss cheese. An Oshigata is an interpretation by an individual and so will vary. If you want to look at the Juyo Oshigata only then do so, no one is hiding it and presenting their own interpretation as the sole oshigata. I do not dare, I am saying with resolve that you are slanderous, I would not walk into your place of business and accuse you of dishonesty without proof and a giving you a formal chance to defend that integrity. It is really easy to throw such claims around when the accused is not there to defend themselves. I am in awe that you have personally witnessed so many Kirikomi being created through the passages of time that you are able to determine with conviction how scars on swords are made 100's of years later. Very bold, or pure assumption (you know what they say about assumptions). At least you acknowledge it is due to impact. Finally, to do well in anything one should be shrewd and have a modicum of experience but most dealers I have dealt with will guide a willing customer if they know what to ask. Ray
Gakusee Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 Rayhan, Slander (as well as libel) is underpinned by falsehood. I have shown proof that Aoi sometimes both airbrushes and exaggerates in their oshigata so my statements were not false defamatory utterances. I do not claim they do it all the time but they clearly have done it. Ray demonstrated to you how to enhance or change the filters in Photoshop to make Kurt’s sword’s crack more visible. Again, a reputable dealer should have mentioned it. The rest of your post is beneath me to respond to. I have better things to do with my time at the weekend such as spending time with my family.
Brian Posted October 21, 2017 Report Posted October 21, 2017 No more. Make a decision and go with it. 2
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