Walter Posted March 28, 2008 Report Posted March 28, 2008 Have received yesterday my first tanto - Here's the seller description: The blade is signed "Kanonori with Kao 兼則", o-suriage shobu-zukuri shape tanto, Muromachi period Ca.1550 made. The blade is in old polish, no scratch on surface and in good condition. The temperline are wavy gunome temper pattern throughout the blade and has deep temper at the point. The forging grain is itame-hada mix with masa-me hada and no loose grain. Will appreciate your opinions about this piece - Here some pics: Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted March 28, 2008 Report Posted March 28, 2008 Nice first sword, congrats. Plenty to study and learn from, shape, jigane, jitetsu, hamon, nakago, mei. In time, should you decide to keep it, you might consider a Takeo Seki (BC Canada) polish. Quote
Guest reinhard Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 The mei is somewhat unusual. It reads: Hon-saku KANENORI This could be translated as: originally made by KANENORI, meaning: the blade was shortened or otherwise changed by somebody else, who left his mark as Kao and the original mei is lost. reinhard Quote
bluboxer Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 This one was on ebay,really nice blade.I was in the running for a little while but ran out of breath!IMHO I think you did well,congrats. Alan M Quote
Joseph P. Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 Beautiful blade, I can imagine the nice balance it must have! By the way, does anyone else think this smiley is creepy? Quote
Jean Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 Kiritsuke mei: 切付銘 A mei which replaces the mei when the nakago is osuriage, and in effect, the person who signs as having done the shortening is certifying that it was the original mei. Quote
Walter Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Posted March 29, 2008 Thank you very much for your comments! Much appreciate! Reassuming, the blade (or tang) was shortened by someone who left this mei and kao certifying that this blade originally was made by Kanenori? Is it safe to agree with the rest of description saying that it's indeed o-suriage shobu-zukuri shape tanto, Muromachi period? Have browsed some books but can't find any reference ... Yes, it's from eBay - As and unexperienced (read: totally novice) collector I'd rather avoid the eBay deals but ... just couldn't resist. About polishing - Mr. Nagamaki, do you know how to contact Takeo Seki (BC Canada) or any other polisher in Canada? I tried the Google without success. BTW - the paper attached to shirasaya ... what could it be? I guess it could be some permit for shipping out of Japan...? Quote
Stephen Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 It is a registration paper, all swords are registered in Japan, don't think id send this to Canada for polish, more likely Bob Benson in Hawaii, http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/swordpolish.htm or Big Mo. http://www.nihontoantiques.com/sword_re ... 20page.htm Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 Hi Stephen, Being as how the sword is in Canada......I have heard favourable things about Seki san, he trained in Japan. Sorry, but his contact number is by request not to be published publicly. Walter e-mail me and I will give it to you under the same conditions. John Quote
Stephen Posted March 29, 2008 Report Posted March 29, 2008 Hi John Sorry I was not putting Seki-sama down...I must have been out to lunch the day that he was talked about and his accomplishments. I would like to learn more if anyone wants to post a bio. Very envious of your trip and getting to work in a forge...host one for me. Btw your book should be waiting for you when you get home, or maybe not if i remember how long the last package took. Have fun. Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 30, 2008 Report Posted March 30, 2008 Never entered my mind. Thanks for the book. John Quote
Guest Nanshoku-Samurai Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 In Canada you can user Martin White. He has over 20 years of expirience and many satisfied customers. However DO NOT send it to Don Myra in BC or likely you will never receive it back nor your money. In the USA Bob Benson can sure give you a cheap and honest oppinion first. He is a top notch polisher. You will have to consider the polishing cost versus the final value. If it is a Shinto or later piece you may wish to keep it the way it is. However Bob sure could tell you what to do with it. Max Quote
Guido Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 BTW - the paper attached to shirasaya ... what could it be? I guess it could be some permit for shipping out of Japan...?Just the opposite: it prooves that the sword left Japan ilegally. The Torukusho, registration, has to be handed in to the agency for cultural affairs when applying for an export license. Quote
Darcy Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 I think the piece was originally a full daito from the Muromachi period. Might have broken at some point, and then was shortened. I don't think it was shobu zukuri. The fukura is very curved in the kissaki and I think does not represent the sugata of shobu zukuri correctly. My own opinion here is that a polisher removed the yokote and partially reshaped it along the ha to to make it look like shobu zukuri. Otherwise, at tanto length with a yokote the piece would look very awkward. Just my gut feeling for what it is worth, and not 100% certain. Quote
sencho Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 Darcy, Am extremely novice question here, sumimasen.... If the blade was shortened, would it automatically be re tempered...? I would have thought so, otherwise there would be no boshi to speak of, right???? Regards Nigel Quote
Bungo Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 Darcy, Am extremely novice question here, sumimasen.... If the blade was shortened, would it automatically be re tempered...? I would have thought so, otherwise there would be no boshi to speak of, right???? Regards Nigel arhhhh, they lop off from the other end, Kapitan, unlike what Henry VIII did to his ladies........ milt Quote
John A Stuart Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 Hi Stephen,You asked for some background on Seki Takeo san. "I must have been out to lunch the day that he was talked about and his accomplishments. I would like to learn more if anyone wants to post a bio." Today I was visiting Sasaki Takushi san (mukansa togishi) and Seki san came up in the conversation. Apparently he completed his apprenticeship with Sasaki san. John Quote
sencho Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 arhhhh, they lop off from the other end, Kapitan, unlike what Henry VIII did to his ladies........ roger that Milt.... thanks..... I should have thought about this a little more! Cheers! Quote
Mark Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 The blade would be shortened from the tang end...... so you still have the original blade from tip to where it was shortened Quote
sencho Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 Thanks Mark.... I think I had a brain fart when I was thinking about this!! Or was it the Shochu???? Cheers! Quote
Mark Green Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Hi Gang, I'm with Darcy. This is the good end of an old sword. Likely reshaped to look more tanto. Very nice though! Congrats. Mark G Quote
Walter Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Posted April 3, 2008 Being the shortened/reshaped is it possible for this piece to receive the shinsa paper? I also wonder how would be considered this signature - as atomei, gakumei, gimei or simply mumei??? Quote
Jean Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 I also wonder how would be considered this signature - as atomei, gakumei, gimei or simply mumei??? As stated above : Kiritsuke mei: 切付銘 A mei which replaces the mei when the nakago is osuriage, and in effect, the person who signs as having done the shortening is certifying that it was the original mei. http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/07223.html Quote
Jacques Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Hi, You must be aware kiritsuke mei can be a way to increase the value of a sword. Quote
Jean Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Jacques wrote : "You must be aware kiritsuke mei can be a way to increase the value of a sword." Taking into account the number of Kanenori and their rating, I'll be surprised if it was the case :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote
Jacques Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Hi, You're always right Jean Author: Honma Junji Quote
Mark Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 I had a katana with an inscription that it was shortened, it had Hozon papers, so they can get papered Quote
John A Stuart Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 You are right Mark, the sky is the limit a good sword is a good sword. Think of all the o-suriage swords that have Juyo and above. This would be a nice piece to research, the kao may be recorded somewhere. John Quote
Jean Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Jacques wrote : You're always right Jean :laughabove: As always, biaised and:offtopic: :lol: :lol: Topic being : Kiritsuke mei - we are anxious to see a sue koto Ô Ô suriage Kanenori blade being enhanced to Juyo status thanks to Kiritsuke mei Quote
Jacques Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Hi, Taking into account the number of Kanenori and their rating, I'll be surprised if it was the case Not off topic, just an answer....., All Kanenori are not low ranked, and a kiritsuke mei to increase one sword value could be possible. That does not mean it is presently the case. Quote
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