This Week's Edo Period Corner

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Thanks for sharing sources Ian.

[Bugyotsuji]

This is said to be one of the two actual guns that the Portuguese left behind. It is in the Teppo Museum in Nishi-no-omote City, the main town in Tanegashima, but I noticed a couple of discrepancies in their display there and left with a couple of question marks in my head. One was the bore, which was obviously much larger than the notice proclaimed. I asked the curator and he said vaguely that oh, it must be referring to 'the other one'.

 

Normally the guns are described as Denraiju, but the sign here says Portugal Sho-den-ju (first/originally transmitted gun)

http://www.city.nishinoomote.kagoshima. ... enrai.html

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Thanks Piers.

[Nobody]

Normally the guns are described as Denraiju, but the sign here says Portugal Sho-den-ju (first/originally transmitted gun)

http://www.city.nishinoomote.kagoshima. ... enrai.html

The actual Sho-den-ju is said to have been lost during Satsuma Rebellion in 1877. The displayed Sho-den-ju seems to be a replica using a barrel from the same era.

 

......

銃身だけは、伝来と同時代のものとして種子島時邦氏蔵(種子島開発総合センターに寄託、鹿児島県指定重要文化財)がある。

―― 天正12(1543)年、種子島時尭が、ポルトガル人から入手した初伝銃は明治10年、西南戦争で焼失している。これを聞いた旧臣の西村家が、その祖織部丞がポルトガル人から贈られた南蛮筒を種子島家に献上した。翌明治11(1878)年のことである。――

本来は(1図)のように銃身のみであるが、現地においては薩摩型の銃床を取り付けて展示し、初伝銃としている。

Ref. http://www.riflesports.jp/nraj/archives ... ndex2.html

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks Koichi san.

 

(Strange, but the website pictures have been changed since I posted the link. Now the explanation has been covered up.)

 

PS. Perhaps it just wasn't loading properly yesterday. Seems fine now.

[IanB]

Piers, Koichi San, Yes that is the Tanegashima style I referred to above. They have that distinctive stock shape and have the lock retained by a screw through the back of the stock rather than tapered pins. They all seem to have an internal spiral spring and a rather odd serpentine that has a boss near the base. I'm sure this isn't a Goan gun. Those in Nagoya are much more likely to be.

Ian Bottomley

[Bugyotsuji]

Ian, the first actual Japanese gun was said to have been made by a Seki Katana-kaji named Yaita Kinbei Kiyosada in Tanegashima.

 

It's the lower gun of these two. There are much larger photos on the web.

http://www.library.pref.gifu.jp/gifuken/predec/01.htm

[Jacques D.]

Ian, the first actual Japanese gun was said to have been made by a Seki Katana-kaji named Yaeta Kinbei Kiyosada in Tanegashima.

 

It's the lower gun of these two. There are much larger photos on the web.

http://www.library.pref.gifu.jp/gifuken/predec/01.htm

 

 

It is said the same thing in the book: Tanegashima: The Arrival of Europe in Japan (Olaf G. Lidin)

[Bugyotsuji]

Ian, the first actual Japanese gun was said to have been made by a Seki Katana-kaji named Yaeta Kinbei Kiyosada in Tanegashima.

 

It's the lower gun of these two. There are much larger photos on the web.

http://www.library.pref.gifu.jp/gifuken/predec/01.htm

 

 

It is said the same thing in the book: Tanegashima: The Arrival of Europe in Japan (Olaf G. Lidin)

 

Thanks Jacques. Oh, and I made a slip of the keys in the name.It's Ya-ita... Kinbei.

[IanB]

Yes, all manner of theories are about as to who were the Portuguese who arrived on Tanegashima and who made the first guns there. I had the name Yasuita Kinbei Kiyosada as the swordsmith and Shinokawa Shoshiro as the guy who was taught how to make gunpowder from another of the ship’s crew.

Much of this story was written by a Buddhist monk, Nampo Bunshi, in a book called ‘Teppo ki’ . Bunshi writes as if he was a eyewitness, and indeed he may have been present as a child, but he did not write it down until some 50 years after the events and it was not published until 1649. There was an earlier gun in Osaka that is supposed to have arrived from China in 1510. The design for this was said to have been passed on to Hojo Ujitsuna and Murakami Yoshikiyo is supposed to have had a few guns of this type that were used at the battle of Udehara in 1548. Like so many of these problems, there is much confusion and many claims to have been the first to do this or that. While I was working on this topic I looked into the earliest known snapping matchlock mechanism (it appears in a drawing in a manuscript done by a German gunner from the Palatinate on the Rhine around 1480). I came to the conclusion it isn't a gun lock at all. The way the bits worked suggest it is some species of crossbow mechanism or the like - certainly not a gun lock.

Confused? I am

Ian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Well, there is very much confusion with the word "Teppo" that might indicated also

the much earlier chinese "fire-lance".

 

Ian, you hit the nail on the head. Quoting from Samurai Archives :

 

Quote...

 

Joseph Needham cites a record, dated 1287, only six years after the second mongol invasion of Japan, that strongly suggests the use of some kind of "hand gun" or "portable bombard" in battle. He further speculates on the possibility that a primitive firearm he calls a "fire-barrel" may have been employed against the Japanese during the invasions themselves. Moving beyond such speculation, we find that the earliest reasonably reliable references to guns in Japan come from the late 15th century. A buddhist priest recorded in his diary in 1466, on the eve on the onin war (1467-77), that a ryukyuan official visiting the ashikaga shogun in kyoto fired a "teppo" in the air, perhaps as part of a ritual or celebration, that greatly startled the inhabitants of the capital. In 1468, the year after the onin war began, the eastern army in that conflict used a "fire spear" that was probably a type of handgun.

 

(Then it looks at the traditional theory of tanegashima) then:

 

The chronicle of the Hojo family of the kanto, hojo godai-ki, tells us that a gun- teppo- from china was presented to Ujitsuna, the hojo daimyo, by a monk in 1510. This gun may not, however be chinese, but rather a weapon from SE asia that was originally turkish design but had been modified at least several times as it was transmitted eastward from turkey. There are other scattered records of accounts in the records of firearms - perhaps chinese or SE asian - in Japan before 1543, although none of these gives a clear idea of what these weapons may have been like.

 

(footnote: In an unpublished paper, Needham suggests the possibility that "turkish guns" first made their way to china from the country's northwest via the Uighurs. See Science and Civilization in China, vol. 5, P. 440)

 

...unquote.

[Bugyotsuji]

Miyazaki Hayao in his animated film, Mononoke-hime, shows use of early Onin-type touch-hole polearms.

 

There are illustrations extant of pottery bombards (a kind of grenade) that the Mongols hurled at the Japanese defenders of Hakata Bay during the attacks that you mention above. One shows a horse with its innards being blown out. The Chinese had a huge variety of fire weapons long before this.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Miyazaki Hayao in his animated film, Mononoke-hime,

 

A masterpiece, and my children's preferred cartoon movie

 

Ashitaka's ring-pommeled sword and the use he makes of it when firing arrows is sooo

intriguing....

[IanB]

Piers, Recent finds in Hataka Bay has actually found some of these tetsu-bo. Some at least are thick pottery filled with powder and lumps of iron to act as shrapnel.

Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks guys.

 

Reading a book last night that poses a good question. If Japan was full of teppo in the Nobunaga and Hideyoshi years, where are they all now? Granted many probably went over to Korea with Hideyoshi, and maybe some were lost at sea... but there are very, very few that can be proved to be from those early 50 years.

 

Incidentally I was shown a genuine Keicho-deppo this afternoon. It is a Kago-zutsu in the Tazuke Ryu style, and it was made by Shozaemon(?) Shibatsuji, originally a Katana Kaji in Negoro who made his first teppo from one brought there from Tanegashima. He then moved, probably when Nobunaga destroyed Negoro-ji Temple and started the famous Shibatsuji line of smiths in Osaka. The barrel is covered in maple leaves alternating in gold and silver.

 

(My own Bajo-zutsu is also very old, I am pretty sure, but no-one will listen to me, so I generally keep shtum. Probably better this way. )

[IanB]

Piers, A good number of the missing hinawa ju are hidden all around you. After the establishment of pax Tokugawa there was the conflicting need to maintain the various armies and the tradition of bushido, whilst at the same time making sure that nobody could build up a sufficient power base to topple the establishment - hence such innovations as the san kin kotai. In furtherance of this strategy, the Tokugawa rounded up all the gunmakers from the various han and moved them to Nagahama (except those of Sakai who were already under Tokugawa control). For a while they could continue to fill orders but had to travel to Edo, to the Teppo Bugyo, to get their order authorised. By the early 1700's trade had all but dried up, as planned, and the Tokugawa even gave out pensions and subsidies to the gunmakers to stop them dashing off back to the Han where they might get work. Such orders as were placed were almost all from the Tokugawa and were minimal. Those guns that survived, and no doubt many were deliberately scrapped, were refurbished and decorated to became symbols of wealth and power to carry in processions. Very few original guns would have had decorated barrels, or lacquered stocks, yet so many today have.

Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

Ian, just talking to an insider friend and he said that those two guns you mention in Nagoya were here in this part of the country for six months before going to the museum there. The owner(s) were very protective about them, so the only way you can/could find out anything is to make friends with them and listen with suitable deference to their description. In Nagoya, even when the guns are on display, no-one gets to handle them either.

 

Incidentally there is one more 'original' Denrai gun with the name Captain (Capitao or whatever in Portuguese?) Domingo inscribed under the barrel. Are you aware of this one?

[IanB]

Piers, No. That is news to me but does not entirely surprise me. Don't forget that until relatively recently, antique guns were subject to severe legislation. It is amazing how many old guns sprang out of the woodwork the moment the regulations were relaxed. There are bound to be all manner of items in private hands that have yet to be brought to the attention of obsessives like me. All we can do is lay down the groundwork and hope that someone who comes after will add to our efforts as new information comes to light.

BTW when are you planning to come to Europe?

Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

This week's puzzle. Bought this off an acquaintance about three years ago and it has been sitting in my office undisturbed ever since. 7.6 cm across. Rim is 0.6 cm. Copper. Quite heavy.

[Nobody]

May be the same medal.

 

Ref. http://www.mofa.go.jp/MOFAJ/annai/honsh ... no/12.html

 

The medal in the lower picture is upside-down. The writing on it may be ...

 

"IN COMMEMORATION OF THE FIRST EMBASSY FROM Japan TO THE UNITED STATES １８６０".

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, Koichi san, and there should be quite a lot written in English on the web somewhere if I can find it. I believe there were about 80 members altogether wearing haori/hakama and carrying swords, and they were all given medallions, three (?) of which were gold, seven (?) silver and the rest copper...

[Bugyotsuji]

Not exactly what I was looking for, but nicely set out with a menu on the left.

http://www.ny.us.emb-Japan.go.jp/150th/ ... nrinE1.htm

[Nobody]

They might be in this style. The attached picture shows a member of the group. His name was Ebata Yuzo (江幡祐蔵), and it was taken in the US.

Ref. http://tozenzi.cside.com/medal.htm

[Bugyotsuji]

What an excellent photo. Thank you Koichi san. The accompanying Japanese explanation seems to suggest though, that he was executed upon his return from his world tour... :|

 

Somewhere there is a detailed description of the wonderful gifts the Japanese delegation took to the USA and where they are stored today. It also describes the manufacture and presentation of these medallions. Mine looks as if the recipient used it for tapping out his kisseru!

[Bugyotsuji]

Something I came across today which I bought for the NMB Edo corner here. A small Kutani porcelain tea or sake cup with a photo in the bottom of a chap in uniform. Some debate among the dealers and customers ... "Nogi Taisho!!!" etc., but they were not really sure who it was. It was Admiral Togo Heihachiro, but I realized that people have generally only seen pictures of him as an old man. He looked too young for them in this portrait! In small gold letters inside the rim and upside down it says Togo Taisho. He became Taisho as a result of winning the Tsushima Straits battle against the Russian Baltic Fleet, so the cup has to be post 1905. Comparison of the medals on his chest might date the cup more accurately.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Sound interesting. Any pic Piers ?

[IanB]

Piers, Did you know the British Old Age Pension is partly because of him? Seems like during the 19th / early 20th century the British government allocated sufficient money to the Royal Navy to keep a fleet in being at least as big as the next two added together. At that time it was the French and Russian fleets. When the Russian fleet was pasted, their was then a fairly substantial surplus of cash which was distrubuted to the old.

Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

Piers, Did you know the British Old Age Pension is partly because of him? Seems like during the 19th / early 20th century the British government allocated sufficient money to the Royal Navy to keep a fleet in being at least as big as the next two added together. At that time it was the French and Russian fleets. When the Russian fleet was pasted, their was then a fairly substantial surplus of cash which was distrubuted to the old.

Ian

 

No, I didn't, Ian, but I do now! I know he was very highly regarded both in the UK and Japan and I have read many stories about him. Here are some pics for you, Carlo.

[Bugyotsuji]

Yesterday evening I went round to collect a couple of things from a Kinko shokunin, and drop off a couple more.

 

I had bought a really small copper and shakudo Tsuba for the Tanto, but it needed some Sekigane work to make the Tsuba a tight fit. It's solid now. The Yari has a black lacquer haft bound in silver here and there, but the fittings were patchy and bright, so he recoated them in a semi titanium-type traditional finish. The spear looks perfect overall now. Really pleased with this work.

 

One of my guns has some indented patterns on the barrel which were never meant to be filled in with Zogan, but a previous owner had experimented with silver inlay and left a bit of a mess in one area. My friend is going to take out the blobby silver inay and restore the barrel to its former appearance. Yay! Also, he doesn't like the bright appearance of the Tachi Tsuba on the sword I wear for displays, so he's going to dull it down for me. Excellent. (The Tsuba is horribly modern looking, but we all wear Tachi Koshirae so even a toy one - from a Mozo-to? - was said to be better than nothing.)

 

Oh, and the local sword shop had a folding wood and leather Shogi stool which I have been thinking long and hard about. It is dated Bunsei 8 Nen, and I rather like objects with dates on them! So that has now found a new home...

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Here are some pics for you, Carlo.

 

It's *much* better then most available on e-bay.

 

Thanks