Looking for some opinions on these tsuba.

[Kevin Adams]

Hi all! I happened across these examples and was hoping to get some thoughts as to an attribution:

 

 

I'm inclined towards Namban, but maybe they could be Nagasaki or Hizen work?

 

Opinions are sought and encouraged.

[Curran]

No- that one is squarely in the Namban classification.

[raven2]

Definitely Namban.

[Jean]

When I have time and the sun shines (looks like it could take at least 10 years as we have been under heavy rains for more than 2 months, I can't remember what the sun looks like) I will take some pictures of a Hizen tsuba with a mon, lacquered and etched and post it. Namban is Hizen but Hizen is not (only) namban.

 

People are focussing on Higo schools and generally skip Hizen, big mistake as there are splendid objects in this school.

[Ford Hallam]

In my mind the question remains, is 'Namban' a school or a style? Obviously, if we think of it as a style then it might be hard to pinpoint a specific group or area of manufacture.

 

And Jean is quite right with regard to Hizen work, a somewhat neglected group who not only working in a variety of foreign influenced styles but also gave birth to some distinctive and original work in their own style.

[docliss]

Namban is Hizen but Hizen is not (only) Namban.

I fear that I must take issue with the above statement by Jean, which appears to attribute all Namban tsuba to the province of Hizen. If one accepts Ford’s premise that the label ‘Namban’ represents a style rather than a school, then the temptation to attribute this group of tsuba to a finite location is greatly diminished. I have no doubt that, in the early days of this style, the main location for their manufacture was, indeed, the immediate environs of Nagasaki. But by the late 18th and early 19th centuries the popularity of these tsuba was universal, to the extent that 'they suddenly overwhelmed a generation' [Homma and Satō, 1935-36], and it is likely that many of the existing schools throughout Japan had adopted Namban traits.

 

John L.

[Ford Hallam]

Gentlemen,

 

 

It seems to me these are pretty classic examples of what we recognise as Namban, as opposed to merely exhibiting Namban traits, so who made them, and similar examples, in such a well defined manner?

[Higo-san]

It looks like a work from the Kawaji school from Choshu. Please compare an almost identical signed daisho on this site: http://www.choshuya.co.jp/1/0802/member ... ttings.htm.

 

Best,

Chris

[docliss]

Thank you Chris - my very first signed Namban tsuba! John L.

[Curran]

That was unexpected.

Pricey too.

[Brian]

Uploading directly for future reference. Hope they don't mind.

Exactly the same theme/style as Kevin's.

 

Brian

[Ford Hallam]

ok, it's a fair cop :D They're the same tsuba.

 

I found the images some time ago and was intrigued as to what they might mean.

 

I asked Kevin to photoshop the mei out and post them. I knew if I did it you'd be, rightfully, suspicious

 

My point having been made I wonder what we might now assume about the 'Namban Style' and it's various manifestations, because these look pretty 'mainstream' and not at all 'influenced by' or derivative.

 

And just to be clear, these are Choshu work in a Namban style. In the absence of any other contenders for makers of this specific style can we suggest that this particular type of 'Namban' tsuba was actually made by Choshu makers?

[Kevin Adams]

While i'm far from knowledgeable about Namban tsuba, the first "out of place" thing I noticed about these was the relatively plain seppa-dai. Most examples that I've seen recently have ornately decorated seppa-dai - I assume to complement the ornate detailing in the plate?

[Jean]

What is namban tsuba? Is it a style (does not look western style)?, is it the steel? Are all cupped tsuba Namban and why? Is namban word used only for western influence?....

[Brian]

Good photoshop job

I'd actually considered that, but he made the one set look better carved..nice work

The seppa dai does give it more of a conventional look. They must have been emulating a style that was common at that time. The question is, what was that style and what did they think of it back then?

 

Brian

[Ford Hallam]

I think the origin of these types of tsuba is a very interesting conundrum and one that's not really been convincingly addressed as yet.

 

One intriguing detail is the often decorated and/or irregular seppa-dai are. To our eyes. accustomed to the usual clear oval, this seems very foreign yet alongside this anomaly we frequently see perfectly shaped and aligned ryo-hitsu as part of the design. This suggests a hands on familiarity with the mounting requirements of the tsuba in the traditional context, ie: local Japanese manufacture by classicaly trained tsuba-shi. The unorthodox seppa-dai seems to me to merely be a bit of fashionable 'exotica' the makers were happy to play with.

 

There are some interesting varieties that may be worth examining in this light on Elliot Long's site here.

For bonus points can you spot the obvious cast fake? and the Higo example that is probably doesn't belong there.

.

[Thierry BERNARD]

one of mine!

[Kurikata]

and mine too in a very different way