Cutting test style of cut?

[Ron STL]

This is an inscription on a cutting test by Yamano Kajiro Hisateru. I can read: Futatsu no do ---but which style of cut is this? I have been unable to find those two characters on any charts. Thanks!

Ron STL

[kusunokimasahige]

Futatsu no do (otosu ?).

 

It means two bodies cut, probably with one stroke. As far as I know.

 

Do can also mean the belly area.

 

Could also mean the ni no do cut :

 

 

Which cutting technique he used exactly (style etc.) I am not sure about.

 

More info on this page about Tameshi.

 

http://www.shibuiswords.com/tameshi.htm

 

Or in French :

 

http://www.katananosekai.net/tameshigiri.html

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

Henk is correct I believe. Ni (futatsu) no do. John

[george trotter]

I am probably going to regret this, but I think there is a big misconception in the west about what these inscriptions mean exactly.

 

I have never studied this matter in depth, but looking at such diagrams they are merely a series of possible (and agreed upon) cuts for blade testing. Thus they are numbered so a tester can give the result to the person whose sword is being tested..

For example:

Futatsu no do means second cut...not cut two bodies. The cut is across the lower abdomen.

The hardest? cut of all is hitotsu no do (the first cut) which is across the hips...thus the blade must cut all that bone.

The easiest (I presume) is decapitation.

 

Has anyone really believed that "Cut #7" really means cut through 7 bodies stacked on top of one another?

 

Maybe some of the collectors/scholars in this era can comment?

Hope this helps,

[John A Stuart]

George, that is exactly what those names mean. A system to indicate what part of the body and the way in which it was cut. I suspect Shimo tatewari 下縦割り splitting vertically the privates; the easiest cut, although why you would need to test this cut is beyond me. John

[Jean]

George,

If I remember correctly the easiest one is the hand/wrist

[kusunokimasahige]

George, you are right about those qualifications. However during the Edo period certain aspects and set conditions were important for swords to reach for instance wazamono rank. Part could be done with a cutting test. And yes, on some swords we do see inscriptions which state two (or more) bodies were cut.

 

In this case, as I already wrote, it is likely that cut number two was meant.

 

KM

[Ron STL]

Thanks George, for the clear (and logical) explanation of the cuts by number, not number of bodies cut through. I may have read that before but if so, I had forgotten it. I've always wanted to understand these test inscriptions better and to put together a worthwhile article about them with multiple examples, but this never got off the ground. I still have a file of test examples copied from various sources when they turned up. The posts topic inscription was questioned by me under another recent post, asking about the use of gold lacquer instead of the usual gold inlaid tests more typically found. Maybe I'll go ahead and attach the full test inscription here, now that I have a good, clear (as possible) photo of the nakago. Perhaps others might enjoy seeing it.

 

I should mention that I do not have this sword, but was asked to examine it a few weeks ago. Since a friend is trying to buy it, I've stayed only an observer, let's say. It also has a kinpun attribution to No-Sada (Kanesada). Interesting sword but with a badly scratched and gouged kissaki which may or may not be fully restored by polishing. (By the way, I thought I posted the above earlier today but if so, I don't see it anywhere. Sorry if I'm repeating myself here.)

Ron STL

[John A Stuart]

Ron, You have piqued my interest now for sure. Can we see pictures of the whole sword if you've the time or is it too poor to photo? John

[cabowen]

This sword was actually tested twice.

[Toryu2020]

Gentlemen-

The great thing about Japanese is the use of kana to give us reading hints. in this case Ninodo(弐の胴 ) is the second do cut while Futatsu do (弍ツ胴) means cut two bodies.

 

this is an impotant distinction when looking at Tameshi-mei - you could cut five in a row rather than five at once or use well aged bodies but i think if it is Yamano or Yamada family work they did not get up to such shenanigans. There are plenty of fakes and some questionable testers and tests out there.

 

Clive Sinclair has a good article on the subject on the TSGB pages i believe. while the lacquer mei raises some questions it is an interesting artefact given as Chris says it cut two bodies, twice!

-t

[Stegel]

Hi All,

going by the information provided in the attachments, how can we determine what is cut Number 2 or 10 for that matter??? (perhaps a new pictorial diagram is needed for us newbies)

 

Does not the inscription in gold (inlaid or laquered) indicate this???

 

/Ernst

[george trotter]

Gentlemen-

The great thing about Japanese is the use of kana to give us reading hints. in this case Ninodo(弐の胴 ) is the second do cut while Futatsu do (弍ツ胴) means cut two bodies.

this is an impotant distinction when looking at Tameshi-mei - you could cut five in a row rather than five at once or use well aged bodies but i think if it is Yamano or Yamada family work they did not get up to such shenanigans. There are plenty of fakes and some questionable testers and tests out there.

Clive Sinclair has a good article on the subject on the TSGB pages i believe. while the lacquer mei raises some questions it is an interesting artefact given as Chris says it cut two bodies, twice!

-t

Two bodies is within the realm of possibility...I suppose if the two bodies were stung up like the drawing (one tightly behind the other) a 2 body cut at 6 or thereabouts (hard to read numbers) would probably succeed...but 6 bodies? I think you hit the nail on the head Tom...just as many crooks around in the past as there are now.

 

Regards,

[Jean]

Always from memory, kesa ranks two or three.

[george trotter]

Kesa is one of the harder ones I think...I don't know where my own chart is right now and I can't see the numbers on this one very well.

[cabowen]

Most difficult cut is ryoguruma-through the pelvis.

[george trotter]

Yes, that's cut number 1.

Number 2 hardest is through the shoulders...hard to read "Daitai"?

[Ron STL]

Ron, You have piqued my interest now for sure. Can we see pictures of the whole sword if you've the time or is it too poor to photo? John

 

John, I have no photo of the full sword, just this photo of the ura side of the nakago. Sorry. I do not have easy access to the sword.

Ron STL