Gunto with Surrender Tag

[dnmmilo]

G'day Guy's, I've just acquired a Gunto with a surrender tag attached. Its also fitted with some very nice menuki. I'd be really grateful for assistance with a translation of the tag and the sword. Cheers David

[Surfson]

First two characters look like Murayama to me. Second two, not sure. Machine made blade.

[george trotter]

I think Robert is right...very hard to see but may be Murayama Kunitsugu.

The tag seems to read Hama Kazue, Captain.

WWII Seki showato.

Regards,

[dnmmilo]

Cheers Robert, thanks George, would the owners name have been pronounced 'Hamakazu'?

[Nobody]

The writing on the tag means Hama paymaster captain (濱主計大尉).

[dnmmilo]

Thank you, I have another question; was the title 'Paymaster Captain' a specific rank like 'Quartermaster' or 'Adjutant' in the British and Australian Army or was it an appointment i.e. Captain Hama was the officer in charge of pay and administration for a specific unit? Cheers David

[george trotter]

Ha...Paymaster Captain...thanks Nobody sensei...I thought it was his personal name as it is given as Kazue in O'Neill's 'Japanese Names' but obviously that "just didn't add up" (sorry, I shouldn't laugh at my own jokes).

 

I wouldn't read too much into "paymaster" David. Every regiment or such would have a HQ section to handle all that stuff...he was probably just one of these.

Regards,

[kusunokimasahige]

What was the reason Japanese military deemed it necessary tio add these tags to the swords they surrendered ?

 

To me it seems to indicate a notion of having the sword returned at one stage.

 

Any other ideas ?

 

KM

[Stephen]

HJ

 

I think 90+% of the time they were for transporting the swords/IDs

[charles heesh]

Hello All, I have been a watcher on this chat line for some time now but I would like to post another possibility for surrender tags. A Elderly Japanese friend once told me that some officers attached surrender tags because they were fearful they would be treated badly, like the way Japanese treated defeated allied forces, and so they would be lost to their family. The surrender tag was a way for the officer to list his name and where he surrendered, via the sword. Charlie Heesh

[cabowen]

I have heard that they were hopeful they would be returned, thus often times we see their complete addresses.

[george trotter]

FWIW I have been told by old soldiers that in the Japanese forces had to attend to a number of things before the surrender ceremonies were held in the field. One was "to ensure the officer name, rank, unit details (and I was told) their address was attached to their swords so that they may be returned after the war"...of course, this was a con job, but it made the fiery types less likely to resist/refuse to surrender.

Regards,

[george trotter]

Look what turned up on Aussie ebay today. Item is anzacblade 19097653667

[cisco-san]

Hi Georg,

 

19097653667 is not working (on my PC)

If poosible please post the whole link.

 

Many thanks in advance

Klaus

[george trotter]

Maybe this will work...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WW2-Japanese ... f2f&_uhb=1

[kusunokimasahige]

I thought as much....

 

KM

[Stephen]

does anyone feel used?

[george trotter]

Don't remember him saying he was a dealer...maybe I'm wrong.

I just looked at the member list (D 148) and 100% of his 49 posts have been for translation assistance, so, I guess we've been very helpful...maybe he might like to make a donation to NMB?

Regards,

[Brian]

Might as well give David some publicity then...

http://www.anzacblade.com.au/

David..no rules about having to declare a commercial motive to posts...but some guys do obviously prefer to know about it beforehand. It can sometimes mean the difference between how urgent they treat an enquiry, and how much time they devote to it.

I don't hold it against anyone, this is a free forum. But we do encourage people to specify if they are using the info for a sale. No harm my side, but another huge thanks to those that assisted would be nice.

 

Brian