george trotter

Hi Bruno, I just tried to respond but my post must have gone off into hyperspace...here goes again...nice transcription of a hard to read mei by the way...I am pretty sure this is NOSHU SEKI JU KOJIMA KATSUMASA SAKU. Katsumasa was a Seki gunto tosho so this will probably be a seki stamped blade. You can check a mei of his in Slough p.80 to be doubly sure this is him. Regards, George.

Ed, I thought your question would have brought out a wealth of opinion and observations on how you tell a namban steel blade from a tamahagane blade...but nothing has happened. I suppose this is a reflection on the findings of the Japanese swordmakers and appraisers of the 1930s-1940s...like you and me, they couldn't tell either (from the steel) the difference between two well made gendaito, or even when a gendaito with gimei of an older maker was presented...this led to the insistance that some form of stamp was put on all modern swords in 1930s-1940s...so they could tell. I suppose also it is why namban tetsu swords made in the shinto-shinshinto eras are considered "nihonto"...there is essentially no difference...probably why the tosho put the inscription on the tang in the first place. So, Ed., from a practical point the evidence seems to show there seems to be no way to tell the difference between the two steels...perhaps someone knowledgeable can add to or modify this apparent finding? Regards, George

Hi Ed., This is uncanny...you have a sandai Yasutsugu and a I or 2 gen Kunikane...(I presume you mean the Rikuzen line), I say uncanny as a friend of mine around the corner has a Kunikane too...dated Meiji 2 tho'...much later than yours. I have looked at it a few times and although, being Meiji (poss 12 or 13 gen), and more likely than yours to have non-tamahagane iron as Japan had opened up to the West by then, I can't say I see anything that points to the iron being noticeably different from tamahagane. This same friend has a Showa gendaito gunto by Rai Kunifusa which says specifically that it is made from sand iron from the coast of Tottori and old iron, and another friend has a nice Showa gendaito gunto Kotani Yasunori (Yasukunito) who is regarded as nihonto maker using tamahagane. As one would expect I can't see anything that is noticeably different in either... but...I also can't see any real difference between these two and a nice Showa gendaito by Osaka Okishiba Heianjo Yoshisada and a Showa gendaito by Niigata Yamgami Munetoshi which I own. These two were Army tamahagane swordmakers...my two have no stamps of any kind, are well made and look comparable to the two others just mentioned, but, to answer your query...I don't readily know if they are namban or Tamahagane made blade steels....they look the same...perhaps they evidence more similarities than differences. I too would be interested in how one tells. Regards...Geo.

Hi Ed, Interesting questions and bound to raise a number of opinions. As to your first...IMO it is fairly common to see additional mekugi-ana relating to hilt mounting rather than shortening. This can be proved by seeing the occasional Showa gunto with an "original" hole with another either cutting it or within a half inch of it. As the blades were made and mounted only once in their short life, the second hole has to be for a mounting which did not "fit" to the original hole put in by the swordsmith. As to your last...namban tetsu or traditional tamahagane...this has been raised a number of times and it seems reasonable to say that in the Showa era...even advanced experts could not tell the difference between the two metals when used in a well-made gendaito blade. How to tell?...I suggest you acquire access to say, a sandai Echizen Yasutsugu blade that is marked "Namban Tetsu O Motte" and compare it with a comparable blade of known tamahagane make and let us know what you find.... I once owned a blade by him and I could not tell any obvious difference to other blades...although (I was probably kidding myself) I thought it looked "whiter" than other steels. The Japanese classify these blades as nihonto so there may not be any appreciable difference. Hope this helps, George.

Thanks for the pics Peter...certainly is a nice hamon. Good taste never goes out of style...it is a good example of a hamon which IMHO looks best in sashikomi polish. About the impact? ...I have to say that from the pics it is a bit of a mystery. From the lack of crater edges where the object "dragged" some displaced metal as it passed off the blade it appears that it was not a high velocity object or the owner carefully tidied up the edge. I suppose we will never know...the apparent lack of obvious shinae from upset metal or straightening a dent etc may even mean a westerner with a round file wanted to see what sort of metal it was? In the end, the wound does not seem fatal, and while a little irksome, I think it should just be accepted as part of its "record" of history. Regards, George.

Hi Peter, Your hamon is my most favourite type. Can you tell us the maker? This hamon reminds me of Showa era Osaka work such as Okishiba Yoshisada and Fukuoka's Komiya Shiro Kunimitsu. Regards, George.

Hi Simon, The Habaki matches so it is deliberate...you know, it also looks like "20" (ie. two Ju's side by side with one stroke joining them as "20"...quite common. This would make the sword "Military, number 24". As you say...if it's just a number there is nothing more to learn. Moriyama san....? regards, George.

Hi Simon and Pete, yes could be what you say...could we see the habaki? If there are identical strokes to the #3 kanji in the mei it could be a character as #3 looks like 9 if you view 9 in a mirror (back to front)...also it could conceivably be hachi = 8 back to front...ie...Bu no 84. The military numbering you suggest is not impossible, as the mei looks fairly recently cut...perhaps c.1877 at the time of the Satsuma Rebellion when things military were transitioning to "moderm Western practise"....but I'm only speculating...it would be good if Moriyama san would take a look. Regards, George.

Hi, i also have noticed this mark on officer's gunto tsubas...but also of interest, it is not uncommon on the fuchi of NCO sword handles. I suppose Suwa had an officer's supply shop, but also a factory making fuchi and perhaps other sword parts for the military? Regards, George.

Hi Simon...good that you had a go at translation...it is a hard one. I think it is, top to bottom: Mu (or Bu) no (or kore) ? yon (or shi) Mu/Bu = military No = of ... (or Kore = this) ...?... Yon = 4 (or Shi = 4) So it seems to say "Military ... 4" Sorry...too hard... Regards, George.

Ah, I see. Well Stephen...please disregard everything I said...I thought there was a tsubamaker named Morinobu living in Okayama who made a nice picture of Tanyu's work and used their alike signatures in a typical Japanese pun. i see from Moriyama san that even the signature mei in the gourd is actually a fake...I suppose this is where I again I admit I know nothing about Tsubas and keep my mouth shut on the subject...in case there is a link to Tanyu/Morinobu pictures and Morinobu of Okayama working in his Kano Tanyu style...I found my info in Iwayama's TOSHO KINKO JITEN p.230. Regards, George.

PS...by genuine I mean Morinobu has carved a nice picture in the style (copy) of Tanyu's work and has signed it with his Tanyu's "mei"...but he has put his own mei inside a "publisher's seal" ...just like an ukiyoe publisher would do for a great ukiyoe artist's work. Great skill on Morinobu's part and a great tribute to his admiration of Tanyu's work. As Moriyama san said...the "Tanyu" mei is part of the design. I like it. George.

Stephen, All I can find on this mei is: Morinobu...his family/personal name is Araki Kiichi. Lived in Okayama city, Onoe? machi.Worked Kei-o (1865) through Meiji era (1867-1912). I can't tell you any more as I know nothing about tsuba...except I think your tsuba is nice workmanship...I think genuine. Very nice. George.

Jim, the rest is sword specifications: ha length: 2 shaku 1 sun 9 bu period: Kanei Regards George.

Hi Janusz, You didn't say you were needing the mei translations for your selling business when you first posted on this site. I also notice that your English is very greatly improved since your first posts. I don't think you will have any trouble doing your own research. good luck, George.

Janusz, what do YOU think the last one is? George.

Hi, I think Jean is is giving good advice...please try to translate them first...then ask for assistance. Some of the kanji are the same as the first three swords translations you posted...so try. The translation given by Sebastien is (with respect) partly wrong...but is clear and easy to read, so try. The last one will be hard for you as it is badly written (we'll help you if you can't get it). Lastly, although I have some experience, I myself gave you some partly incorrect readings on your last post, so it is always better to try yourself. Good luck and try hard...then you'll learn. regards, George.

We live and learn...I just could not see it/find it. thanks to you all, George.

Hi all, Ah yes, I found "Inaba" Kaneyoshi at # 180 on the list provided by Moriyama san. I am confused...I have never seen Inaba written with these three kanji...can someone show me an example from another source? I see this as Inanami (I suppose it could also be Inami) but it have not seen Inami written with the middle kanji either. I think you are correct though, what I saw as Inanami Kanenami on a Kaigunto must have been Inanami Kaneyoshi...or as is said here Inaba Kaneyoshi. Since some seem to know where there is quite detailed information on Kaigun Tosho of WWII...can you post your sources so we can have a look also? (Onegaishimasu) Navy smith information is rare. Thanks, George.

Hi Widok4 (please use your name), Reading down your top picture to bottom picture: Your kodzuka: ??hachi ni gatsu hi (??8 2 month a day) Minamoto Kumiyoshi (maker's name) Your Kaigunto: I Na Nami (makers's family name?) I have seen this on kaigunto before, sometimes like yours, sometimes with the makers name added: Inanami Kanenami Your 1944 (actually called "Type 3"): Sho Wa Ju Kyu Nen Go Gatsu (Showa 19th year 5th month (May 1944) Masa Nori (maker's name. George.

On the impossibility of linking a mon to a family name...I once had a little Japanese design book which was entirely of mon designs. It said that from 1909 (or 1911 or 1913...I forget), the use of kamon was "deregulated" and from that time on anyone could use any mon they liked. It also said that Japanese peasant class people had no surname, so when in relatively modern times they were given the option of choosing a surname they did so...often choosing the name of their district, local head family etc etc...i don't know exactly how accurate this information is, but I have always considered it fun to link a mon on a gunto to a family...but certainly never took it as being certain, given the the information above. George.

Hi Moriyama san, Oh yes, I see it now...I did miss it...gomen. the mei you post is quite different. I think the character Ryo written there on your post is different from the one written on the original post mei. I think it is something else...and the only kanji I have seen written the same as that one on the original post is "mori" as used in the Seki Gunto mei Kanemori. Just my opinion based on observation. regards, George.

Hi again, further to my post above, I have remembered what the ebay? site said the reading of the mystery kanji was..."mori". It was on a WWII Seki gunto signed Kanemori...look up Hawley KAN 1532 and also page 212 in Kapp and Yoshihara "Modern Japanese Swordsmiths 1968-present". He is listed in K&Y as an officially registered Seki Tosho in 1944. Although the same smith, he is (incorrectly?) listed as "Kaneji" in the Jinsoo Kim lists of Seki Kaji Tosho linked above in Rich Stein's site. This Kanemori's "mori" is definitely the same written style as your mystery kanji. I suppose therefore your mei reads Sanemori (no listing in Hawley) or...as the others have already said, Shinryo...however, I (respectfully) don't think "ryo" looks like the same written character as this "mori", so maybe someone can post a mei of Shinryo so we can compare it? A nice little mystery. George.

Hi Klaus, well done on your translating. The Masayuki you mention last (with the kanji shown) is Miwa Masayuki. This is the only Seki Showa swordsmith listed with the name Masayuki. His real name is Miwa Tomoo and he started work on Showa 14 year 10 month 26 day (26/10/1939). Rich Stein's Seki Showa oshigata list shows his mei...if it is the same as yours then they are the same man....if it is different it may be because the meis were carved by professional mei carvers and can vary a lot. You had better show us a pic of his mei, maybe we can help further. George.

Hi all, I agree the Sane is probably read as "Shin". I saw the mystery second character in a mei in recent times, it was a WWII gunto mei? (on ebay?) and its reading was given...I didn't pay a lot of attention though... but SEEM to remember that I think the only one it could be is listed on the Seki Kaji list as "Kaneji" (if I knew how to insert kanji I would do so) but look up this smith, he is 178th down. I suppose he could be read different ways but as my books are in storage I'll have to ask you guys to check it out for Charlie. If this is the correct kanji, I suppose the mei would be "Shinji"...or? Regards, George.