george trotter

Hi Reinhard, I think the NMB is here to promote discussion on Japanese swords of all types and periods and to help people and educate people interested in their studies of these and related items. I realise that we on NMB can't always tell the motives of the people who ask questions here so we take them at face value and answer their questions for them (if we are able)...whether these answers end up helping or hindering a far-away commercial transaction later on we can't know. It's a chance we take...but I think very few of us like to intentionally get involved in providing information that may be used in a commercial matter...indeed, even within NMB, some menbers won't even provide the slightest details about themselves when making comments here on Nihonto related items...for fear (I suppose) of repercussions...that's why the hide their nationality, location and identity behind avatars. I would suppose that such people are aware of the problems that can arise from giving advice/information...that is why they also usually restrict their comments to answering questions asked here rather than offering information to the NMB members un-asked. So you will notice that my question was about activity outside this NMB...about people volunteering information to ebay sellers that was not asked for...an intervention in a far-away financial transaction that has an adverse effect on one party, and I asked the NMB members their feelings on this...may I ask what your opinion is regarding the matter I raised? Regards, George.

Hi Mark, Good try...I think this is Nanto Ju Kanefusa saku Kanefusa, a resident of Nanto made (this). Cheers, George.

Hi This thread brings up a matter that has affected me in the past. Would it be appropriate to the topic, and the board, to ask why people who have no intention of bidding in on-line auctions, contact and notify sellers of pertinant information regarding their sale item? I have watched an interesting sword in the past, only to watch it withdrawn at the last moment because someone "donated" information about the maker. Another time there was an unidentified blade that was attracting no bids...I was intending to pounce when a non-interested viewer supplied the mei and period information, which attracted a number of bids at the closing hours to double the price...I can understand exposing fakes, but why educate unknown sellers and buyers to the detriment of quiet, knowledgeable bidders...especially as they have no intention of bidding themselves? Is there a place for this behavior or is it just "spoiling"? George (twice outpounced)

Not wishing to contradict anyone...but might this also be UJIHIRO? Regards, George

Hi all, Thanks for all your comments. I had never thought of the possibility that the weapons in the photo might be wooden ones...but quite possible of course, and we can't tell from the photos really, except I would say that the "blades" do seem correct in shape and thin-ness for real blades. Jean, I do not have much knowledge of naginata/nagamaki making and use, I only repeated what the dancing ladies told us 30 years ago at university. The naginata they used were small...but I suppose it is only my memory that says she called them "women's naginata", maybe my memory is failing? Maybe as you say there is no such thing? just naginata made to order in various sizes, some made small for use in small rooms and corridors, but not specifically called "women's naginata"...I don't know... I wonder if one of our members in Japan could ask about this and let us know some further information? Carlo, thanks for the training site...I will check it out. Regards, George.

Hi Jean and Stephen, Yes, great picture. This photo may be the last time naginata training was ever done for war...to protect the homeland...a truly historic photograph. Jean, as you can see, a reasonable number of these naginata/nagamaki are "women's size". I agree with you that they would not be forged in great numbers like men's naginatas, but as mentioned in the original "naginata/wakizashi" post a few weeks ago,the women dancing the samurai women's naginata dance told us, each samurai house had one or more womens and mens naginatas resting on a rack inside and above the main sliding entrance screen. It was the duty of samurai women to immediately reach for them to defend the entrance /approach path to the house when the men were away. As she also showed us the dance/kata for "receiving the mounted attack" mainly while jumping to the side, slashing the horse's legs as it passed and killing the rider from the rear as the horse fell, this suggests that they also had field tactics for cavalry, but I suppose this was limited to resisting mounted intruders in the main courtyard or garden of the house. The point is, there must have been a lot of women's naginata as every samurai house would have had some? Perhaps these ones in the photo were brought from home by the students of old samurai families? Stephen, I found this postcard in a veteran's collection of photos from occupied Japan...he gave it to me...I thought long and hard before I posted it as, the web being what it is, it is only a matter of time before someone rips it off for commercial gain...so, thank you for asking permission. Please use it...I hope your other friends enjoy it. I forgot to say in the original post, that the caption said that the learning of naginata kata by women was compulsory/required curriculum for high school girls by the Mombusho (Min. of Educ.) at that time. I'm glad you found it interesting. Regards George.

Hi John, the first one looks to be cut in a type of sosho script..it reads SA TO KANE SUMI and the bottom one is OKA DA KANE SADA SAKU Both are WWII Seki tosho. Does this tally with your findings? Regards George.

Hi all, recently the subject of women's naginata/nagamaki came up in relation to the shape of a "wakizashi" thread. I thought you would all like to see a WWII postcard showing these naginata. This is from a series of patriotic postcards of WWII. It was published in Ginza in 1943 and again in 1944. The caption reads: "Deciding the coming conflict". "As part of the responsibilities/duties of womenfolk to the Homeland, these girls enter a new term at Middle High School with training in the Ministry of Education's Naginata Training Course". You can clearly see naginata and nagamaki together. Many are full size "male" weapons but some (eg front row from left, woman #5,6,7, and others) are holding the smaller woman's naginata. By the look of the instructor's face, I would say she knows how to handle herself in a conflict. It is interesting to see the use of naginata, as most will be more familiar with the famous photo of housewives training with sharpened bamboo staves. Regards, George Trotter

Hi Eric, Yes I agree with what you say...a gimei is always deliberate...but what is the purpose?...to deceive? When the shape, kitau, hamon are completely and obviously so different from Suketaka Gengoemon, what is the purpose of signing such an obviously different work with his name? It would be like putting a Rolls Royce badge on the front of a Ford truck...would anyone seriously believe it is a Rolls Royce? What is the purpose of gimei-ing so far from credibility, if it is obviously not trying to copy his workmanship? It seems as if another smith who hates Gengoemon made a "Monster Wakizashi" all clumsy and wrong and deliberately put his gimei on it to make a joke about Gengoemon's ability? I am just wondering. Regards, George.

Call me crazy, but I think the mei says (at this point, uncleaned) : hole, rust, something, FUJI WARA, something, rust. George.

Dear Ian, As gentlemen I'm sure Bazza and I don't know what a "bad woman's bedroom" looks like...we would perhaps describe the fittings as "gaudy as a Satsuma samurai" :-) BTW the earlier comment "...it's a gimei...and not even cleverly done" suggests that there was no serious intent to deceive? Regards George

Hi all...again, as an old geezer dredging up 30 year old memories, I recall a huge tachi on display in either Okayama or Kurashiki (I think). Perfect shape and dimensions except overall it was approaching 2 metres. Spectacular choji hamon and I think made as an offering by one of the Bizen Yokoyama smiths. This may be why the two HUGE wakizashis mentioned were made (although I think the tachi may have been for a temple). In addition, I have seen (maybe just in photos...can't remember) a perfectly proportioned copy of the Masamune tanto (the one with cut out ken horimomo?) and its size is certainly much too large to carry and use. I don't know the answer for these things, but must be partly "self advertising" of the swordsmiths skill as well as serving the purpose of a meaningful effort for a presentation item. Regards, George.

Japanese art is just superb. Interesting that the angularity of western art was an influence in such nationalistic times. I'll try to find an excuse in the future to post a pic of my lacquer board with cracked bell and birds...and my modern shippo yaki plaque of "art nouveau" poppies ... although this won't help Grey and his quest on the meaning of the sosho script... Regards, George.

Interesting thread. The pics of the tsuba with cho sukashi must surely be Ikeda kamon?...the rim provides the circle?...like on John's jingasa. I also remember that some of the weapons at Himejijo had two mon on them Ikeda and another, but I forget what it was...the star of Hosokawa or Ogasawara?...or did it have ken blades sticking out between the star "spots"...anyone remember? This supports the multitude of different mons on the tile-ends. I also remember Korakuen and Karasujo (the sinister Black Crow castle) one of only two? black castles in Japan. In those days (1980s) we used to go to Ando Hiromichi's swordshop...still going I think...also to Kurashiki...good sword museum...ah...too many sake and noodle nights since then...memory becoming nakunarimasu. George.

Dang... Well, to my eyes the habaki shape and the gilt mon style looks modern, Showa period, possibly Taisho (we need Ford's eye for this), and the inscription, although I can't translate it, seems to be a phrase rather than identifying a person. Since it reads right column down starting "takitsu sei inoue ???" it seems to be a poem/literary line about water and wells... Where is Moriyama san... Regards, Geo.

A gilt kiku mon can indicate an Imperial Family presentation of some kind...what is the blade and mei? George.

For the sake of discussion... If a daisho is defined by matching fittings, what do the Japanese call the other pairs of daito and shoto with non-matching fittings worn by 99% of samurai ? As I've said before, I'm not up on samurai nomenclature but it seems to me that the term "daisho" is just an abbreviation for daito and shoto. This is joining of the first syllable of two words daito and shoto = "dai + sho" and it is very common in Japanese to shorten the length. Another prime eg is Atomic Bomb = Genshi Bakudan...but most Japanese say Genbaku. George.

Speaking of the butterfly in the circle kamon...my memory tells me that this is very common on weapons, art objects, tiles etc at Himeji Castle in Hyogo Ken (old Harima). The Daimyo 1600 onwards was Ikeda Terumasa, so I suppose he was connected to the Tottori Ikeda clan to the north. In the case above, where the cho is used as menuki, but not in a "heraldic" pose, I would hesitate to call it a kamon...more like a a simple cho menuki...unless there are "heraldic" cho on the saya or other fittings? George.

Henry san, Well done on a very worthwhile and rewarding project. I don't know if it's just me, but I always appreciate seeing plain black saya and plain dark iron or alloy fittings on suguba swords. This combination always projects a feeling of calmness, of restrained, understated strength and power. I imagine the samurai who carries such a pair as thoughtful, competent and likely to resolve situations with words rather than instant swordplay...but chillingly efficient when necessary. Once again, thanks for sharing with us. Regards, George.

Hi Ilya, Interesting sword. From the pictures I would venture to say that I agree with Reinhard in that the sword may be signed "Sa" by the maker (not the O-Sa), and still having the original mei. The sword is suriage, but judging from the placing of the mei well above the cut-off end, and the "oldness" of the mekugi hole just above it (compared to the two higher/later holes), it may be the original hole, so not an added later signature, but the original. The blade details are much harder to see...some large nie and some masame hada? and a high? shinogi. Can't really tell too much. Regards, George.

Hi all, I'm not sure if this is on topic but relates to the comments about the IJN Yamato etc above. 10-15 years ago I had some long chats with a former IJN officer visiting his granddaughter at school here in Australia, He was Lt. Com. Miyoshi...posted in 1944 to the newly built Shinano (the giant aircraft carrier). Miyoshi san was a gunnery specialist. On the shake-down cruise in the inland sea they got hit by US torpedoes...the Captain kept the engines at full speed. Miyoshi told me they went slowly down by the head...until after some hours steaming ahead at full (or high) speed, the flightdeck became awash. They ploughed under at great speed he said. Only 200 survivors. They were all immediately posted to the farthest corners of the Empire so they couldn't speak about the loss of the Shinano (sister ship to Yamato, Musashi). He ended the war in Hainan Island. The Nationalist Chinese aircraft landed at the airfield there and the Japanese surrendered to them. He put his sword on a pile of swords on the airfield...he couldn't remember the maker..."Kane someone he said". Miyoshi said he enjoyed talking to me about this...he was amazed that I knew all about Shinano etc and was sad such history was hidden in Japan. He said his name meant "3 luckys"...he was lucky in Love, Cards and survived the war...a nice bloke. Regards, George.

Hi all, What a fantastic effort. Congratulations to the collectors, the co-ordinators and drivers of this exhibition...not least to the enlightened management and curatorial staff of the Art Gallery of NSW. In contrast to this is the Western Australian Museum. It had a very creditable Arms and Armour Collection on display at Fremantle from 1974-1990. It included a sizeable portion of the Japanese swords, yari and yoroi in their collection. It was consistantly the highest appreciated display in visitor surveys (all age groups, genders etc). When the History Department of the WAM was taken over by the "new breed" of curators mid 80's, the display was viewed by them as "boy's toys" and "death machines" and was finally removed to storage. Consequently, only a dozen or so people have seen the collection in the last 20 years. One reason I compiled the "Japanese Swords and Fittings in the Western Australian Museum Collection" catalogue in 1989 was that I knew it would be the only way the interested public could ever access the collection, so, despite its faults, this catalogue is "all there is" now. How great it would be if the WAM would allow access to the collection as an art display in the Art Gallery next door. Sadly, in Western Australia, the "new breed" thinking still holds sway! Great effort everyone...I can only dream of such enlightened progress!!!! George TRotter.

Actually, the point of the mei on your tsubas is interesting. What do you put on your work? Could you give us a few words on your mei? I am way out of touch with modern developments in Japanese-Western art connections...is yours a case like Keith Austin where (I think) his sensei conferred a Japanese art name on him which entitled him to use kanji to sign his work, or...? Regards, George

Well done John! Thanks for the exercise Eric...At least I'm maintaining my 100% average (100% wrong, 100% of the time!). BTW, any comment on the "80" in E1? Regards, George.

Hi Mike, We usually try to get members to translate themselves, but in this case it is very hard to read so... to help you, the first three kanji read "Sawa da Kane ... ... ..." (Kane is the rarer one meaning "wrap"). I can't see a Seki or Sho stamp on this sword, but it looks like WWII Seki production. You will probably find some info on him on the military swordsmith links here. happy searching... (give a holler if you have no luck. Sword looks in good condition. Regards, George