george trotter

Actually, the point of the mei on your tsubas is interesting. What do you put on your work? Could you give us a few words on your mei? I am way out of touch with modern developments in Japanese-Western art connections...is yours a case like Keith Austin where (I think) his sensei conferred a Japanese art name on him which entitled him to use kanji to sign his work, or...? Regards, George

Well done John! Thanks for the exercise Eric...At least I'm maintaining my 100% average (100% wrong, 100% of the time!). BTW, any comment on the "80" in E1? Regards, George.

Hi Mike, We usually try to get members to translate themselves, but in this case it is very hard to read so... to help you, the first three kanji read "Sawa da Kane ... ... ..." (Kane is the rarer one meaning "wrap"). I can't see a Seki or Sho stamp on this sword, but it looks like WWII Seki production. You will probably find some info on him on the military swordsmith links here. happy searching... (give a holler if you have no luck. Sword looks in good condition. Regards, George

Considering the words of the title question: "contemporary tsuba...can they be valid", here is some cold logic...It could be argued that since 1954, by official government proclamation, and with the full support of the "sword world", there have been no "swords" made in Japan, only works of art that look like swords...ergo, the adornments on these art works are adornments on art works. Since the object is now art not function it could be argued that it is no longer valid to call the round object with a slot in the middle a "tsuba", just as it is not valid to call the art object in the shape of a sword "a sword"....but we still do. Your round object with a slot in the middle Ford, is absolutely superb. Regards, George Trotter.

Jean, the same thought occurred to me...would Eric be so naughty....? George.

Just comparing the meis here, I think E1 is the most different in the cutting of one important stroke . Regards, George.

Hi Mark, Interesting sword. I had a look at the books (hope you don't mind a comment?)...Kojima (not sure Tokijiro?) born Mei 32 was firstly Kanetoki. He became Kanemichi . He made swords for the army in WWII. His son was Kojima Kanji born Tai 14. In Sho 15 he entered the mon of Watanabe Kanenaga. He took the name Kanetoki (2nd Gen) and although I'm not sure he probably made swords for the army...the books don't specifically say so. Your sword may be either man as I don't know when 1st Kanetoki became Kanemichi or when exactly 2nd gen Kanetoki started. I would presume this sword to be the 2nd as the strokes of Kane and saku don't match Kanemichi's mei, and if him (as Kanetoki) I would expect Kane and saku strokes to remain unchanged when the Toki became Michi. As for the lack of stamps, as you say, it could mean pre 1940 make, but also, I have two Showato without stamps, and I would put both after 1941 and these both show handwork, (masame and nie and ko-nie), so can't be definite...perhaps, army swordsmiths were able to make "private orders"? I must say, the field of Showa era swords 1926-1945 is very interesting. keep on hunting. Regards, George.

Well said Simon. I too have fond memories of years of association (through correspondence) with Willis Hawley from 1973 to late 80s...a true gentleman and friendly and encouraging, including to new collectors. As you have recalled, even by mail he was welcoming and hospitable. He would take the trouble to explain things to us as equals. I have never known him to be dismissive, or superior, or to sneer at obvious mistakes...it was not in his nature. He wanted people to enjoy what he enjoyed, not drive them away. His focus was in Japanese swords and oriental art itself, not in himself. As you can tell, I liked him and I learned from him. That is why it is so pleasing to read your words on this board...NMS is, in its way, is carrying on his knowledge sharing, encouraging and guidance in correct practise towards Nihonto. That was the man...regarding his work, it was, and is, valuable to beginners and advanced alike, and often the first book one reaches for for a quick reference. It is NOT a "research paper" with opinions and appraisals...it is a COMPILATION of as many names, places and dates of swordmakers as possible, for ready reference. As a compilation drawn from many sources it is only as good/accurate as those sources, so it has imported occasional errors and mistakes and "doubling up" of swordsmiths. This does not mean it is worthless and ridiculous (as some sneeringly say). As long as we know it has occasional errors or "doublings' it is a valuable aid...as Willis meant it to be. He and Yasu Kizu are to be revered and thanked. Good to have you with us Simon. One day I will have to share my memories of Albert Yamanaka...what a character! Regards, George.

Hi Charlie and Koichi san, I think you are right Koichi san...Kaku is what it looks like, but it doesn't make sense. I think you are correct with Kuwana. Charlie, I also thought it might be the kanji you showed, "Fuyu" (winter), but again, no...it looked more like the one Koichi showed with the sqare box "kuchi" (mouth) underneath. I suppose this is a good lesson on allowing even Tosho to have "spelling errors" or very strong personal ways of signing a mei. This was a good example. Regards, George.

Hi, to my tired old eyes the second character of the sword mei in the pic looks like kaku (also masa, nuka)...hisa with kuchi underneath (sorry, don't know how to do kanji inserts). George.

Hi Jon, Masayuki's family name was IIJIMA from Yamanashi prefecture and he ran a Sword forging company in Tokyo in WWII . I had one of his blades myself and I wish I had kept it. It was signed with the same stamp as yours and had a spectacular "crab-claw" tempered edge. As for being worth restoring, since you inherited? the sword and it cost you nothing, it may well be financially worthwhile, perhaps some members who specialize in WWII military swords can help with advice on prices for polishing here. Regards, George.

Reinhard said Some features look doubtful, but the mei is good enough to have it checked by an expert. M. Lee asked What features do you find that may be doubtful. George Trotter

Hi Moss, It looks like Kanenao, but if nao, it has one stroke missing . There was a Seki Gunto Tosho named Kanenao, his family name is Ishihara and he started at Seki on Sho 14, 10 month, 27 day (27/10/1939)...it may be him, but I have not seen other mei by him to compare...check the Fuller & Gregory books if you have them....mine are stored away at present. Hope this helps, George.

sorry, tried to listen...but when he started his history talk with "before the common era" I thought- PC academic tosser, and had to turn it off. George.

Hi, the stamp looks to my tired old eyes to be very similar to what Fuller and Gregory call "chimata" inside a sakura blossom (same as "sho" sakura blossom). it is shown also in Kapp &Yoshihara "Modern Japanese Swords and Swordsmoths" page 62. I have only ever seen this on Type 3 mounted swords, so must be a stamp that came out around 1943. Another stamp I have seen only on Type 3 is "matsu" in a circle, but obviously different to this one. Hope this helps. George.

Hi, thanks for checking the nakago...it seems from the measurement that the blade is not wildly thinned by polishing, or else the blade is o-suriage and has completely lost the original nakago. The problem is that the style and shape of the nakago is "clumsy"...it is very un-natural in its shape and lines and does not look like a continuation of the blade as would be found in an o-suriage blade. I suppose it could be one of the crude "delivered in bundles" swords of the sengoku jidai which started with the Onin War in 1467 and lasted in constant warfare until the seizure of power by the Tokugawa around 1600...this was a bad time for the quality of swords. Sorry, can't be of more help, George.

Hi There is something strange here. This sword seems to have almost no munemachi or hamachi and is described as tired almost to death, yet the habaki fits perfectly and does not rattle. In a recent thread Bruno, Jean and myself were discussing this very point of tired blade thin-ness , small machi and nakago thickness leading to problems with a properly fitting habaki. Can you tell us how thick the nakago is please? You said that the blade kasane at the machi was 6mm...what is the thickest part of the nakago? Regards, George.

Speaking of Christmas cheer...my sister sent a friend of hers around yesterday with a Japanese sword her father had brought back from Borneo 1945...she just wanted to get it out of the house as she didn't like having it around! Soooo... I now have a nice present of a Showato in complete gunto fittings (with tassel) by Ando Kanemoto (Slough p.50). Mine has no Seki stamp and says "kitau" (forged)...it does indeed have some masame hada in places...of course, not true nihonto....anyway, a nice Christmas present...and I got a hug, for taking it...can't complain. Merry Christmas to all :-) George.

Hi Jean, Yes, now I am confused too....I agree with you, I think it is maybe better to wait until the question becomes a proper thread of discussion. Regards, George.

An interesting point Jean... Just to clarify the ha/mune machi thing...the original question was about the mune-machi indicating tiredness...I said the ha-machi is more likely to be an indicator than the mune-machi. Jean, with repect, while I agree there are a lot of other signs of tiredness in a blade I don't think it is wise to just "forget about the ha machi thing". Because the blade wears thin with many polishes,and the nakago stays thick, the ha-machi/habaki fit is especially a sign of tiredness (IMHO) or at least repeated polishings. You say, the matter does not exist in the case of suriage or machi okuri...I think this this is open to discussion as in these cases a large part of the nakago is still thick . It would only be correct if the old, thick nakago is totally removed as in o-suriage, and the questioner did not say the blade was o-suriage. If the blade was o-suriage then the machi thing would not apply and as you say, other signs would need to be checked. with respect, George.

First pic says unsigned, Nakajima Rai. Second pic says Period O-an (I think)...1368 Third pic says Blade length 2 shaku ? bu Fourth pic gives Showa date (in zodiac signs...sorry havent got my book here Fifth pic is name and kao of sayagaki writer Fukunaga Suiken so your friend explained it correctly to you. Regards, George Trotter

Hi all, Yes an interesting point...naginata or nagamaki. The naginata usually becomes much broader in the boshi than nagamaki? I just spoke on my memories of 30 years ago. The women dancers were talking specifically about samurai women and their weapons and techniques to defend the house and it was put down in song and dance to help them learn/remember the kata (way of doing). They said it was a naginata, and if I recall, they said it was a woman's naginata because they also showed us makuriyari (a woman's "pillow spear")...very small and light...usually kept near the futon in case the bedroom is attacked. But I must admit, I don't know if there were yari and naginata made especially for women...I just remember the one she used was very much like this one. As for the tang, I agree they are slimmer and longer and the mekugiana is further down than wakizashi, but we don't know for sure here whether the tang is suriage and machiokuri to the extent that all the original tang is gone. If is has gone then perhaps it is not so small after all. just a thought. George.

Jean, Not so strange if it is not naoshi, such as if it was made as a small (woman's) naginata. Also, can I comment on the use of Jap wak kat? Under the rules of English, and good manners, it is perfectly acceptable to use these as abbreviations, for example Jap. wak. kat. The full stop (period for the Americans) must never be neglected. Personally I shudder to see these shortenings used, but remember if you use the full stop it is correct, polite grammar in English. Regards, George.

This is interesting...and sort of on topic for this sword, but from my experience, it is more likely to be the ha-machi that shows quickly if a sword is tired. As the ha is polished down, the thickness/width of the blade at the ha-machi becomes less than that of the nakago. To get the habaki to slip over the nakago it is then too loose at the ha-machi...I suppose the same applies to the mune-machi, but the blade would be obviously worn out if the habaki was slipping over the mune-machi. George.

Jock, I agree with Pete and Uwe, the mon is a famous one...Asano of Ako came immediately to mind as I mentioned, but that does not mean that he personally owned the sword...you would need the provenance of the blade. Regards, George.