george trotter

speaking of Kyoto...as you are standing looking at the main entrance into Nijojo (Nijo castle), look to your left...diagonally opposite the left corner of the castle (across the crosswalk) is a sword shop. I forget the name now, but they sell swords, fittings, polishing etc. Worth a look if you are there. Regards, George.

Steve... people have mentioned Aoi-Arts...this is just a few yards from the NBTHK in Yoyogi...if you get out of the station at Shibuya there is a police box across the road...they will give you a map to NBTHK and Aoi-Arts and another shop are very close by it, just ask. The walk to NBTHK is quite long, almost a straight line, but about 15/20 minutes. Also, if you are going to Ginza Choshuya (I've never been), then when you step out of Ginza station, just a few yards right and look right again down the 1st? tiny side street, you will see the sign for Ginza Token Shibata...(if I remember correctly), the younger chap there speaks English. can't guarantee tea and cookies, but they are polite and helpfull. Hope this helps, George.

oops...Hyogo ken, not Hyuga ken...sorry...old age...I caught it from Stephen :-) Geo.

Hi Geoff, You are lucky, your grandfather "captured" a nice, handmade blade (certainly by a known gendaito smith). As John and Morita san said, this is Endo Tomonari of Hyuga ken, who made swords for the army. I looked him up for you, since you are a "research-a-holic"...as most of us are. Ono in Gendai Toko Taikan 1971 p.125 and in Gendai Toko Kinko Shiotsukata Soran 1977 page 103 discusses him. His name is Endo Sei?ichiro and he usually signed Shi or yon?man?sai Tomonari, but when making swords for the army he signed Endo Tomonari. He was born in Meiji 34 year/7 mo/25 day. His father was a swordsmith named Miyano Yoshimitsu and his grandfather was Miyano Heijiro Yoshisada, a swordsmith at the Minatogawa Jinja sword forge in Kobe. From Sho 14 he made/began swords...in Sho 16 he worked a month with Kurihara Hikosaburo Akihide in Kanagawa. He made swords in Osaka. He was associated with the for the Hyogo forging association. Between Sho 14 and the end of the war he entered the Newmade Swords Exhibition and was chosen 2nd seat in the 6th (1941) exhibition. He began swords again in Sho 40 and was still living in 1977...he lived at Mikishi, Fukui. Your mounts are commonly called '44 Pattern, but actually were introduced in Koki 2603 (1943), therefore, the correct term is Type 3 mounts (second peg hole often not used). Your sword and mounts are good quality , you have your family history...write it all up in a file with pics, names, dates, locations...it is a family treasure...enjoy it and pass it on. Regards, George.

Nice hamon...I really like this active type that becomes suguba before the monouchi. Similar to an example by the great koto swordsmith Tomonari (more choji than gonome). The closest I ever got was a Seki WWII gunto blade by Okada Kanesada which had this hamon....although his gonome was a bit more box shaped (hako). It will be interesting to see better pics of the mei so we can maybe help a bit more with the ID. regards, George.

sorry, link doesn't work...try Tosogu thread by Reinhard "talking about Hama-mono" 27 Feb 2010...page 6... 2nd pic down. Geo. Edit Brian.. Link works when you type http://www... and not http:///www.... :lol: Fixed.

I think it is a safety catch, now incomplete. The hook at the end of the bar once caught on a projection on the koi-guchi of the saya...now missing. There is a very similar device illustrated on a tanto on the "talking about Hama-mono" thread in Tosogu, by Reinhard try viewtopic.php?f=28f=6890&start=75 Regards, George

Hi Ford, I can only offer an untrained opinion...it occurs to me that the responses to your questions are probably on target...these rocks are probably conventions to "humanise" the sagacious figure depicted and to "bring familiarity" of the everyday world to the viewer. I have walked many temple grounds and other natural sites in Japan and to my mind, the placing of the little cluster of rocks with (always) the attendant sasa leaves that are so typical of the everyday Japanese scene, immediately familiarises the viewer with the picture. It also puts the "notable person, sage, bonze" etc depicted into a shared understanding...making it more credible as a scene. I suppose the Chinese Taoist influence is apparent in the larger formations...but again, familiarised by the sasa leaves. Just a thought. George.

Simon san, Thanks for the time you took to explain your philosophical position regarding war and militarism...I certainly respect your right to your beliefs. I take it that you will probably go ahead and separate the blades from their fittings...so be it, that is your prerogative...I just make one more plea in regards to swords and their fittings as expressions of art (as you mentioned). Although the current mounts are military I think they should stay together as expressions of art as well as history...I think you will find that an art museum always tries to keep a portrait or painting of any type, school etc, in the frame it was originally mounted in or found with. In art circles, the frame or "context" of an artwork is considered of prime importance to the placing of the artwork into its "mileau", or contemporary history context. An art curator, would not dream of taking a Picasso or a Cezanne out of its contemporary frame to put into an older or a more recent frame...heresy! Similarly, a Rembrandt found in a contemporary frame would also be kept together...with respect, I just ask that you consider the question in terms of art...your ultimate decision of course, will be respected. Not trying to be argumentative of your views, but to show you an alternative view that may be valid also...or not... Respectfully, George.

Stephen, I see Moriyama san has confirmed Masa, so your reading is correct...(better than mine). I had another look around for Masatsugu, but it's a bit of a mystery. Moriyama san has noticed that it is only the "Masa" that is written in Sosho script and if you look at the link here for Rich Stein's Showa Oshigata database, you will see that Sakurai Masatsugu also cuts "Masa" as the only Sosho kanji in his mei...yasurimei is the same also...and Masatsugu of Saga also does this (Toko Taikan p.563)...it is very commonly done, so I think you will need more clues than this...you'll need to research, research, research...there are probably still some Showa era tosho who are not known. If I find anything later I will let you know. http://home.earthlink.net./~ttstein/masastug.jpg Regards, George

Stephen, from your pics, the sword looks promising...good looking hamon, seems to have ko-nie (in the close-up), and is mounted in high quality fittings. It would still need an experienced member to have a look, in hand. As for who it is, well, I think we need one of our Japanese speakers to confirm whether it is "Masa" or "kokoro/Shin"...but it looks like the latter to me. I have had a trawl through my books and for Masatsugu have found about 9 in modern gendai period, about half can be eliminated as their mei are illustrated and are different people, but half have no mei shown in any of my books. No Masatsugu is listed using "SA" and there is no "SASHINSHI" either...sooo...not sure what to say...is it dated?...any stamps, painted numbers, anything? also look on back of tang (nakago mune). Also, it would be good to see whole nakago shape and ha-machi area without habaki and overall blade shape laid flat and closeup of hamon . Regards, George PS...this is an unusual signature...there is a smith called Yanagawa USHOSHIN (U means right) and his mei can be seen on Rich Stein's oshigata database site...maybe this guy SASHINSHI (SA means left) is his evil twin...heh, heh :-) Still, jokes aside, a nice little mystery...

The "Masa" looks a lot like kokoro (heart/mind) which is read SHIN. Thus, it looks like SA SHIN SHI to me (but "Left heart/mind feeling" does not make sense to me). None of the Masatsugu's mei mentioned in Gendai Toko Taikan are done this way, and none used SA. Hawley also did not have any combination of these meis. Sooo..... I think we need more pics (front view) and of blade to be able to give opinion on mei and age and type of kitae. Regards, George.

Simon, as I am first cab off the rank, may I suggest (at risk of bringing down the wrath of the gods) as follows:... Firstly, it is my personal opinion that the Russo-Japanese War mounts are part of the sword's history. As a historically minded person, I consider it a backward step to discard the mounts and re-mount in any other koshirae. I would ask that you keep the fittings with the sword, and perhaps have the blade mounted in shirasaya to prevent further contact with dirt/old oil etc etc. If you separate and discard the fittings, the sword becomes...what?...another mumei blade in "added later" mounts...who wants that. regardless of the period the blade was made, its last "working" fittings are gunto koshirae of the 1894-1934 period...a genuine proof that the sword was actually used for its intended purpose...no offense intended to anyone's belief system, but this is my advice. Secondly, in my experience, a number of blades have been shortened considerably to fit these Kyugunto mounts. Some hav egakumei or somesuch, or are o-suriage. Your tang shows that it is shaped to fit the mounts' curving tsuka, being "saki fuseru" (reverse curvature)..not common at all. Thirdly, if you adopt the advice I give in (1), you won't have to reshape/machi okuri the nakago (I hope you leave it as it is). If not, you will be opening a new chapter in the life history of the sword...it will hereafter be classified as "nakago altered in modern times"...this will probably devalue the blade. Hope this gives food for thought... Regards, George.

Mr Brunox, your signature is Kanekiyo There was a Kanekiyo working in Seki making gunto 1939-1945 (real name Nagamura Kiyosaburo)...this may be him. As you say this sword is in Type 3 mounts, the stamp is probably a "Gi" stamp...it is inside a cherry blossom, so is often mistaken for the more common "Sho" stamp. As it is in Type 3 mounts, the date (if dated) could be anywhere from 1943-1945. Hope this helps, George.

Hi Peter, No offense taken mate...we are all here to learn. I looked up the site you posted...I couldn't open a link to the actual mei you mentioned, but, the bad news is that your NOB 116 is the wrong "Nobu"...different kanji altogether. I mentioned NOB 590 as having the same mei as yours, but as NOB 590 is 1532 and your nakago and mei look "fresh" I said you should look at more recent times...There are a lot of Nobuyoshis, but according to a quick look in Hawley and Toko Taikan, relatively few listed in Yamashiro/Settsu in Shinto-Shinshinto times....and none seem to sign Heianjo. Your blade looks like quite good quality though...it is definitely worth further research. Welcome to the word of trying to find out who/when/where... regards, George.

Fukuda Mitsuo...the "other" Yoshimitsu and the one I think you are asking about, is on page 164 of Gendai Toko Meikan 1971. It says, roughly translated, he was born in Meiji 45 (1912), Feb 26. Lived Saga ken. Signed Yoshimitsu. From Sho 7 (1932) he studied under Koyama? Nobumitsu. (I may be wrong here, but without my books I think) he, with brother Masamitsu and Sadamitsu were selected for the Newmade Sword Assoc. in Sho 10 (1935/36). In Sho 17 he became Kaigun Jumei Tosho (Navy swordsmith) at Sasebo. Started in swords after the war in Showa 30 (1955).Selected for Sword Exhibitions 1955, 58, 68,70. Work is Yamashiro den, Bizen den, Shinto Tadayoshi, Tadahiro. Used Tamahagane, Watetsu, something called "Jyami", and pine charcoal. Worked in Makuri Kitae, Kobuse kitae style forging. I have probably made mistakes as my Japanese books are in storage (still renovating) but I'm sure our other members will correct me where necessary, The oshigata in this page 164 is post-war and is signed Hizen Kuni Yoshimitsu kore (o) tsukuru. ( Kao). If you have one by him it is a nice find. ...and you are correct, he won 4th seat in 1941 ( 4th seat is titled "a good piece of work" ). Morita san has some of the actual oshigatas of the placegetters in these competitions...hopefully he will post yours if he has it. Hope this is of help. Regards, George.

Steven, Yes, lots of history on Bougainville and Guadalcanal. I saw Admiral Yamamoto's downed Betty bomber on Bougainville...still there. I always wanted to find a sword by Amada Sadayoshi (Yamamoto was holding a sword by this smith when found)...but so far, no luck. I like history also, but in the case of swords, if they are of any quality, i think they should be polished if dirty. I like to keep them in their original gunto fittings if clean, (or with a new saya liner), but if blade is dirty, saya worn etc, I advise to have the blade repolished and put in shirasaya, and kept with their gunto fittings (their last war service mounts). The dirty fittings tidied up and mounted on a tsunagi (wooden "keeper" blade), and kept and displayed with the polished blade. I am considering this for a good WWII gendai blade myself. Love the history too, regards, George.

hi Steven, Yes, quite possible that it was retrieved from a downed aircraft by an Aussie soldier. The plane was probably IJN as the navy had its own planes. I spent almost 2 years on Bougainville Island in 1976-77 (with side trips to Guadalcanal) in the Solomons. I worked with a ex-Aussie soldier that fought on Bougainville in WWII and stayed on. He had a katana by Kawachi no Kami Kunisuke II, in buke zukuri mountings, which he personally took off a Japanese soldier (hope I don't offend anyone here) killed in a firefight while on patrol. The Japanese soldier had the sword strapped over his shoulder, carried on his back. It had the best GOTO firttings I have ever seen! Sadly, the blade was slowly deteriorating in the humidity in 1977...by now it will have been ruined. So...Steven...a nice piece of history...glad yours survived in good condition. Regards, George.

Steven, I read this as KAMI KAZE (divine wind), the same as the headband inscription worn by the pilots who crashed their planes on enemy ships in 1944-45. The Minatigawa shrine swordsmiths used the stamp you identified on the saya...they made swords for the navy and marked them with this kikusui mon, but in this case, I think it possible that the sword was "blessed" at the Minatogawa Jinja by the monks. They may have put on the kikusui stamp and the Kami Kaze kanji as a "blessing"/patriotic charm for the officer. I have seen such mounted swords, often in brokade bags, which were a personal possession of an officer and were surrendered along with his gunto in 1945..some had a patriotic or religious charm attached. I may be wrong, but I think yours may be one of these...nice find. Regards, George.

Thanks to all for the replies to my question re the "ha towards Tiger" ...it is definitely a breach of etiquette and protocol on the part of the Japanese presenter...my own impression, noting the smiles and "fun" atmosphere of the picture is that it was a PR "photo promo" or something...hence the imitation sword, and lack of formality...perhaps the press asked Tiger to adopt a "stance" with the sword? In the case of the Prince of Wales...I would put this down to a failure of the British Embassy staff to adequately brief the Prince on correct etiquette and protocol regarding swords, or perhaps they did, but Princie's mind wandered during the Noh (as a westerner who has attended four hour performances of Kabuki and Bunraku, with mind-numbing snippets of Noh, I can testify that one's thoughts do tend to wander). The outcome of this discussion is that etiquette is important, especially in regards to the safety of people and the sword, but slavish adherence to arcane ritual dreamed up by bored samurai should be left to personal preference or as dictated by surroundings (eg shinsa etc, knowledgeable gathering etc)... In addition, as the pictures and my own experience attest, there are just as many Japanese who are completely ignorant of the Japanese sword and its ways as there are westerners ignorant of it, simply because they do not come within the ambit of swords in everyday life...ignorance is not crime...people can learn, so let's ease up a bit on the anti-western bias that seems to pervade some posts...let's be a little more even-handed in our comments. This is my opinion on the matter. Hope it helps the discussion, George.

Thanks for the comments Cisco san... I asked this question, because when looking at pics of WWII Japanese officers surrendering their swords to British and Australian officers, I can only remember one pic where the sword is being handed over with ha towards the British/Aust officer, and as you mention Cisco san, I think the handle was to the British/Aust officer's left - the opposite of the pic of Tiger woods - (but my memory might be wrong on this). Maybe I'm wrong, but I always remembered this pic as showing deliberate (unspoken) disrespect? to the Allies, as all other sword surrender pics I remember were either done mune towards Allies, or in sword bags, or laid on the ground handle towards Allies/kissaki towards Japanese officer. Can one of the members clarify this point of etiquette and protocol? Regards, George.

For the sake of furthering this discussion about ignorance of sword etiquette and protocol I ask again... Do my eyes deceive me or is the Japanese gentleman handing over the sword with cutting edge towards Tiger Woods...if so, is this in accordance with correct etiquette and protocol? George.

Tom, I had a look through my Japanese Gendaito references and can't find any trace of him in any of the post-war ones, so I suppose he didn't continue in swords after the war (or I missed him). I did find his name and address for Hiroshima Ken in the Nihon Token Shimbun 1942 publication "Dai Nihon Token Shoko Meikan" Page 304-17 (which is the reference quoted in the Rich Stein Tosho list linked by Morita san). No other information is given, but at least it is a source/page/date/reference for your files. George.

wunderbar indeed! Was the sword in this polish when you got it Tom, or did you have it done? Regards, George.

Morita san...I really like how your book (Nihonto oyobi Nihonshumi) has the actual oshigata of the winning swords...fabulous! If only this book (and journals) could be re-printed...Wareware no gendaito no shushuka wa, kono hon ga, irimasu yo! Thanks for these pics... Regards, George.