george trotter

Oh yes, you're right...Hmmm, well I suppose it must mean the sword was made in Seki (Gifu) and then, as part of the process (mounting?), passed through the Nagoya arsenal? Geo.

This is the second sword this week that I have seen with this heat treatment...the other was an o-suriage blade in gunto fittings...either shortened in Showa era, or a copy. I would be concerned at such a feature and would hesitate to buy...but perhaps it is not uncommon when associated with shortening and "detempering" the hamon after the machi okuri; can some experienced NMB members give comment on this? regards, George.

Hi Philip. I second Jean...very nice restoration, very tasteful koshirae...and nice blade too...they all go well together...congratulations. Regards, George.

Hi Todd, Yes the sayagaki says the same as the blade (if blade mei is Magouemonjo Kiyomitsu)...I am not sure how accurate my translation of the "comments" section is (it is a bit hard to read), but I'm sure someone will help if I'm drastically wrong. As to who the writer is i don't know...those 2 "??" kanji above the Kao might be his ID...not sure...they are hard - might say "Gorin Muneyuki" ...I just don't know...but some here are pretty good on sayagaki names and might know the Kao...so might pick up on that. If you need to know about believability, you can post pics of the blade so people can compare...just be prepared for the occasional harsh comment along with the helpful ones. Regards, George.

Hi Todd, I'll have a go...(Morita san and Moriyama san chigau koto ga areba, naoshite kudasaimasenka...onegaishimasu). Todd...you already know it is Kiyomitsu...the sayagaki says ... Bizen Kuni Ju Osafune Magouemonjo Kiyomitsu RH col. Showa? Mei Mono Cho ni (futatsu) Do Mei (Showa? name genealogy has two inscriptions the same) LH col. Shosetsu ari Eiroku era (views/opinions/accounts vary...Eiroku era) the rest is length (2 shaku/1 sun/8 bu/?? kore wa arimasu) and the sayagaki writer's Kao. from this description you should be able to look it up in Hawley's or some of the other references? hope I haven't messed up too much. Regards, george.

Hi Joseph, you must be shocked at the comments flying around here now...please don't be alarmed, it has nothing to do with your sword. Your sword is not terrible junk, nor is the inscription amateurish scribble. Most of us have tried to help you, without too much success...just be content to accept that we can't be sure of the inscription meaning, we do think the sword may be shortened/altered and the inscription added later...it is certainly more recent than your blade. You just need to buy books and study what you have and compare...and make your own judgement...yours certainly couldn't be worse as that of some of us here. I don't think you will learn too much more here, unless our Japanese speakers/readers/writers would care to comment on the quality of the inscription itself and the date it was written? Regards, George.

Hi Baz, I did look closely at the binding in the pic, and I feel that it is original. lI have been privileged to handle a fair number of Type 3's in the past two years and they matched this binding/fittings/saya etc exactly (some had dust protector seppa and the dia. of the tassel hole varies), but...all in all, I'd say the binding is right IMHO....it is amazing how many Type 3 swords are appearing in recent years...the vast majority in excellent condition (I've seen more in 2 years than the previous 25 years!). regards, Geo.

Morita san, it is difficult to translate... I suppose "inro-kizami" no sayabori in English would be saya carved in "inro-segments". In English, the body of a mukade is said to be "segmented"...this looks like inro segment sections. Just the words "inro-kizami" alone would be "inro notches"?...."inro-segments"? Sorry I can't be more helpful.. Regards, George.

Hi Morita san, All these share kanji/meaning kizami : notches......I suppose it means the notches/lines cut around the inro? hori : carve/engrave/sculpt. chokoku : carving/engraving/sculpture Regards, George.

No John, not driving me crazy, just trying to help a member...who seems to have disappeared anyway...maybe he's had enough himself :-) Geo.

Hi Lee, You could be right...if it is indeed Chinese as you suggest, perhaps you can let us know?...to me however, it doesn't look like Chinese interference. I suppose the quality of the cutting of the mei is a matter of taste...I have probably been seeing too many awful WWII nakirishi mei and in comparison these kanji are perfect...in point of fact, they are "perfectly" written...almost like printed kanji...very clearly written (I wish I could write as well!!)...mei does seem "recent" however, probably cut in the 20th century? The vertical "yasurimei" seem to be scratches from fittings/tsuka/tsuba dragging? (just a thought). Regards, George.

Congratulations Markus...I wish your book much success. Regards, George Trotter.

Well Joseph, there you have it. It seems that the inscription (which I consider well cut and interesting), is not readily translateable into English. Moriyama san thinks it is very specific to the writer's frame of mind, and only the writer knows exactly what meaning he/she intended...if Moriyama san, as a native Japanese speaker has not come across this saying before, or cannot make a reasoned attempt at the meaning, I can accept that it is most likely beyond the rest of us at NMB...sorry we can't help more. I apologise for persisting on this, but it is not common to have longish inscriptions on a tang without a Tosho mei, so yours was interesting and it is always best to get the fullest feedback from the appropriate people before reaching a final conclusion IMHO. Regards, George.

Very interesting Morita san...it looks like Ono Akitoshi is capable of doing gendaito, or very good showato...that certainly is nie in the hamon. I see you have marked his name Akitoshi very definitely in red and say it is very similar to Keith's mei...I agree...I think this is correct...(the use of the reading "Myoju" in Kapp & Yoshihara (p.213), is a mistake I think). This sword of yours seems to be worth a close examination Keith...you might have found a good one there. Gotta love the modern sword researching... :-) Regards, George.

Respectfully guys...the question asked was about translating the inscriptions...that is what most have tried to do without reference to quality or condition of the blade....it is only fair that we treat the poster's question with respect. Can we hear Morita san and Moriyama san say there is no possible translation of this inscription before making a final conclusion please? On the other point...if a sword is "low class and ruined", does that mean no discussion is possible? Regards, George.

Morita and Moriyama san...could this be a wise Buddhist saying such as... "the strong mind overcomes the strong man"...? Regards, George.

Keith san, If you can see signs of hada and are happy that the yakiba has a distinct hamon line of ko-nie (or similar), then it appears the blade has handcrafting...the lack of any military stamps tends to suggest that this blade might well be out of the more usual run of Seki gunto production (usually oil-quenched)....although it has handcraft characteristics it is doubtful that it is made from tamahagane so rather than true "gendaito" it is more likely a "Showato"...similar handcrafting but western mill steel. We have little chance of confirming this from pics, but I do think your boshi shows signs of a nie/ko-nie line...anyway, as to rating the smith, this is not really possible, as there were about 200+ of them by 1944 and all were generally trained to the similar standard by a handful of traditional smiths. I suggest that you read the book "Modern Japanese Swords and Swordsmiths 1868 to the Present" by Kapp & Yoshihara....your Akitoshi is listed on page 213 as "Myoju" Also there is a wealth of information on these WWII era swords of all qualities on Ohmura san's "Military swords of Japan" link above. You have a nice condition sword and koshirae there for sure. Regards, George.

Hi Keith, following on from what Morita san told you, there seem to have been two Akitoshi smiths...one is named Wakabayashi Akitoshi who was mentioned as Army Jumei Tosho, but no mei kanji are given. The second is the Seki Tosho mentioned whose name is Ohno (Yuichi) Akitoshi, same mei kanji as yours...he started as a Seki tosho on 17th Nov 1943. Since there are no stamps on your sword (either "star", "Seki", Na" or "Gi" ), it is hard to say which yours is...but judging from the pics, I suggest it is the Seki man...it has the look of Seki gunto work to me IMHO. Regards, George.

Well Jean, I'm mystified (as I often am)...apart from Morita san and ottou812 listing the correct kanji, I haven't seen anything that actually translates the meaning of the kanji phrase or slogan...what do you see that I have missed? regards, George.

Hi Charlie, I have just had a great viewing of a great coillection of nihonto...many with recent polish (within the last 15 years). From what I saw there and what I see on your blade now (from the pics only), I would advise you to go slowly and not jump immediately into a re-polish. Your polish looks pretty good to me...better to have a 1935 polish with a few slight blemishes than to rub out all that professional pre-war polish (IMHO). From the number of lines (11?) marked on your sword by the polisher, it might be an Honami polish...I stand to be corrected, but I remember reading somewhere that Honami polish was marked with 11 or 7 lines (called nagashi). My advice is to certainly use choji oil and uchiko for a while and just enjoy the blade until you get to know it properly...then decide. Just get your books and do your research as you enjoy the blade...never be in a hurry if the blade is not threatened by active hungry rust...and yours does not seem to be. regards, George.

I can make out that it is dated Koki 2603 year (1943), but there is more written there...can't make it out. George.

Nuts to me too John, i forgot that Seki, a major town in Gifu also, means barrier (I think), probably a customs/security checkpoint on the trade route in Samurai times...so Seki and Nagoya are both relevent to "Gi" of Gifu. Regards, George.

It is read "Chimata" sometimes, but in WWII swords it is read "Ki or Gi" for Gifu prefecture where Nagoya is situated. Literally, it means "a fork in the road", which is probably how Nagoya came into existence, as situated at the juncture of two trading routes. These three inspection/quality stamps are good evidence that your sword is probably the oil-quenched blade made in great numbers for the Army between 1943-1945. This blade is signed (I think) Yoshichika...he was a Seki Tosho working at Seki between 26th April 1943 and 1945...his family name is Yoshioka Tetsu?jiro or Ko?jiro. Regards, George.

I think Keith has hit on an important aspect of the Japanese aesthetic as expressed in tosogu. We know that male Japanese from early Edo onwards were socially precluded from personal adornment/jewellry. Indeed, the paragon of samurai masculinity was retrained and sombre dress...without any outward personal display or adornment...the only avenue for personal expression open to him (in terms of wealth/social class) was his sword , his tanto or wakizashi, and his sash utilities (tobacco pouch etc). Even his saya and wrap were expected to be restrained...leaving only his tsuba...hence the departure from pre-Edo aesthetics mentioned by Keith. With the rise of the merchant class, and their insistance on filling their desire for display, the exquisite workmanship and presentation of "outrageous" conceits in tsuba art came into full swing...but the restrained simplicity style (albeit of exquisite workmanship) continued also...this demand and wealth makes it very hard to separate the samurai "minimalist" aesthetic (for want of a better word) and the "luxurious" aesthetic of the merchants into definitely identifiable separate streams...who can say who ordered the tsuba? I say this because the Satsuma warriors also were notoriously "flamboyant" in their choice of adornment...reds, golds, gilt etc etc (very much like the merchant class tastes) and when later disassembled...who can say whether the piece is samurai aesthetic or merchant aesthetic. It seems that the most productive phase of tsuba art, in terms of quantity/quality and influence is very blurred between two major consumer groups...whose aesthetic is being depicted? And, just to complicate things further, does the art produce the market or does the market produce the art. In addition, there is the steadily increasing fascination with borrowing/depicting aspects of art or everyday life from the west...we have had some very heated debates about whether this influence was avidly welcomed out of curiosity or cynically "grabbed" by unscrupulous western/Japanese merchant combines to "export" to the equally curious west. Some insist the westernisation of Japanese art was purely to make an alien product more digestable to western markets...presumeably the "Japanisation" of western themes was to make them more "digestable" to the samurai/merchant markets in Japan? For me, being untrained, I think the question is too broad for me to attempt...the narrowing of focus into identifying an outside influence in an individual (piece by piece?) study of what is essentially a "Japanese" work of art may be more "attack-able" for me. Regards. George.

Hi Stephen, No...the "Na" is the "Nagoya" stamp and the next one down looks like katakana "ho"...used as batch/order/contract indicator (eg in English A1,2,3...B1,2,3...C1,2 etc)...most common on back ridge of Mantetsuto. If it is "ho" there will probably be a number below it? It also looks like "ki"...tree.. but I don't know the significance of "ki" if that's what it is. Regards, George.