Bruce Pennington

These are great, John, where are you getting them?

Wow, Brandon! I had read that the non-traditionally made blades could have a "grain" giving them the look of traditional blades, but that's the first one I've actually seen. Beautiful!

Sorry, but didn't realize that I hadn't kept this post updated. Got some clarity on another site: the kanji is the center character of the Seki stamp. Still no idea WHY the Seki stamp was put on the upper edge of this NCO gunto: "--Guy Kinda like the middle 关 of the 関 but didn't stamp clear enough" http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=848373

We are all aware that there were war swords made for PETA and other nations during Japanese occupation, and these swords look like the ones in legitimate period photos, so I'm honestly curious to know how you are differentiating between the real and the replica? Honestly from the skill and labor that went into both these examples, they are worth a fair price as accurate representations of These kinds of weapons even if they came after war's end.

Here is a good site for dating: http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/kanji/nengo.htm Yours is "Meiji 10 2 year 8 month." Meiji era was 1868 and you add the years following (-1; they count the era as "1") so 1868 + 12 - 1 = 1879. Eighth year is August. August 1879. Someone else will have to help with the other question.

That's gorgeous Bill. I can't wait to get mine polished.

Clearly not Japanese. Even if it was something from an occupied country, it was poorly made. But the tsuka wrap is too new to be original war-era.

While the real pros are working on the smith - The mix of army fittings on the clearly navy gunto make this, what is commonly called, a Marine Landing Sword. The IJN did not have "marines" as a seperate unit, but the navy troops that worked on land were often known to take up this style of saya with army fittings. They were originally gold-gilded like the navy fittings, but the gilding seems to wear off somehow. Nice blade! And yes, the painted numbers are 45 just like the stamped numbers on the seppa. Everyone agrees they were there to keep fitted parts together during manufacture and assembly.

John, we love doing this, and like to help, but dude! we need better pics - full handle, tang with writing, tip of blade, full view of blade and scabbard. All those things tell about the sword. Even with the 2 pics posted, though, it seems an odd mix of Type 3 gunto (sword) in a Type 98 saya (scabbard). And "Noshu" would be the province the smith worked in.

Thomas, the civil/police/naval prison patrol swords are an area I've never studied, so forgive the long post, but I'm interested in learning! As I understand it, the police were part of the civil rank structure, correct? This sword does seem to fit the pattern of police swords in Dawson's book, yet it has an unusual floral pattern on the backstrap, and doesn't seem to have any of the police badges. I've also never seen this style backstrap without the "ears" and the blossom set apart on the handle. Dawson has a forestry dirk (pg 181) with a seperated blossom. Dawson, pg 367, also has a Manchukuoan sword with a similar backstrap, and in the description, Dawson says this pattern "shares its basic design with the swords authorized for Japanese patrolmen and sergeants and with the swords authorized for Japnese naval prison guards and shore patrol sailors." So this sword does seem to lean toward a policeman sword, but I'm curious about the lack of actual police badge.

Actually a better movie for gunto sightings was the Japanese-made "Emporer in August" about the effort to stop the emporer's announcement of surrender. Had a couple of scenes in a command center where the soldiers stacked their gunto in racks. Several had the white-wrapped tsukas.

Incredible accuracy! But they still puzzle me - why go to all that effort to manufacture something that well and still not pay attention to simple detail like the color of the paint?

Navy Arsenal stamp at the top of the nakago, not enough view to see which one. Unusual single hanger. Maybe the other one was removed. Could have had a leather combat cover, but now gone. Price is actually a little low for a Kai-gunto.

Flemming, I, like several others are puzzled by the unusually small nakago (tang). Would you do us a favor when the gunto arrives, of taking the kisaki off and getting some good pics posted of that area where the tang meets the blade? The sword clearly has a hamon. I'm not expert on that aspect of Japanese swords, so hopefully, we can get the real pros to evaluate when you get it home and take more pics. Don't be concerned about the skeptical comments. Some folks are offset when they see something unusual. I've seen enough to know that, while there IS a standard these go by, there are always exceptions. Their concern is that the fakes are so prevelant, it is a constanct battle identifying them and weeding them out. Yours does not look like a fake.

Fleming, That's "58". Numbers were used to keep parts together, since they were fitted and sized to each gunto.

Ok, found it - the last one is Haruhisu. Haven't personnally seen one from that smith, though. and a correction to my reference to F&G above - that page came from Slough.

Frank (sorry I missed seeing your name the first time!), I agree fully. There are other forums that specialize in swords of other countries that might be able to lock in the ID of your sword, but I'd say you nailed it down pretty good! I'm sure I can speak for everyone here when I say that we agree with your horror at the things done in the name of war. Anyone who cares about right & wrong, about humanity, would. But to say that one loves the craftsmanship of a sword or gun or a crescent wrench, isn't saying that they agree with terrible things done with them. But I wouldn't lump all soldiers of any war into a cookie-cutter mold. It is well known today, that most German and Japanese troops were just trying to serve their country and the people they loved (and many weren't there by choice). There were evil people doing evil things, but there were plenty of good people serving right next to them. Try reading "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep," "Flyboys" and "Unbroken." You will see examples of both.

Hi fschwep! Your blade is not Japanese but it is a nice one made in another nation, maybe during WWII. Many nations made their own swords during the war. Some of them during Japanese occupation, and were used by indigenious soldiers fighting for/and against the Japanese. Here is a link of a thorough discussion of this very subject: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/19199-was-there-any-type-of-production-of-Japanese-swords-in-occupied-territories-during-wwii/?hl=java&do=findComment&comment=197457 I consider it an honor to be the caretaker of these weapons. Many men gave their lives selflessly to fight for their people. These weapons represent the honor and sacrifices they lived by.

Thanks Stegel! I added that to my collection. I have seen 2 or 3 Mantetsu's with W's but that's a good one to save! Fuller commented in his book that he thought it was struck in error, but I'm starting to see several of these, so it was clearly intentional. What I'd like to do next, is see if it's possible to get the locale, province or city the three known smiths were working in. Unfortunately, from the start, Fuller says they were unlisted. (actually there were four - Takehisa, Yoshiharu, Yoshitoni and (dang, I can't find it. His name started with an M, but I can't find the refernce)

Bill, you know what you have, don't you? It's a 1938, Dalian Factory stamped Mantetsu blade. According to Fuller&Gregory, the only year with that stamp, so RARE! Mantetsu blades used Manchurian steel produced by and for the South Manchurian Railway, and used for the Mantetsu blades, as well as shipped to Japan for use by other smiths.

Since we're on Mantetsu-to -- Reading my F&G, Fuller states that the Koa Isshin blades were made in Japan, while the Mantetsu (no Koa Isshin slogan) were made in Manchuria. Does anyone know WHERE in Japan the Koa Isshin blades were made?

I thought I might try to narrow down the district or province these smiths worked. It might add to the search for the origin of the W stamp. Here's the first hint I've found: "Stephen Oyabun Members 6,961 posts LocationI OWE WAY Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:20 AM Is that from a early F&G he may be from the Yoshichika group Yoshichika Ke (良近) The following smiths are members of the Yoshichika group: 1. Yoshichika (良近) 1.1. Nidai Yoshichika (良近) 1.2. Sukeyuki (介之) 1.3. Kiyonosuke (神之助) 1.4. Yoshiharu (義治) above from the Tokyo Kindai tosho index" Is it safe to say, assuming this is the same Yohiharu, that he was operating in the Tokyo area?

Found W stamps on just a few smiths, so far: Takehisa, Yoshiharu, and Yoshitani. (F&G, and JapaneseSwordIndex - http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/showa.htm Seems to be a pretty small group of blade manufacturers. Possibly the same inspector stamping the officer gunto of the smiths above was somehow invovled with some of the NCO production line as well.

I've gotten a close look at that fuchi. Comparing it to the clearly brass habaki and the copper handle, I'd say it looks more like copper than brass.

And again from Julian: A Tokyo First Arsenal beside the spiked circle. It's hard to see from this pick, but Fuller and Gregory have this same combo and the image inside the circle is "TO" meaning sword, but he states the stamp's origin is unknown.