Bruce Pennington

Latest update, 4.1, on the Stamps Document. Been making some big headway with the research guys like Thomas have been handing us. Latest version is updated on the Kobe and Mizuno Type 95 stamps, as well as the just discussed Company stamp. Might be some cosmetic streamlining as well. Thanks to all who have been keeping this going!

Thank you, again, Thomas! I've moved the stamp out of the "Unknowns" category.

Here's one John! Just look at the length of that nakago!!! Found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18864-ho-no-to-kenma-project/page-3

I agree Thomas, I've made the correction to 367. Trystan, Are you in contact with the owner? I'd like to see if there is anything under the habaki. With that much pitting in the nakago, it is very easy to be misled. Plus, what looks like "Nu" to me is way too close to the first 8. Usually there is a bit of space between them, and often the katakana is just under the edge of the habaki. Can you ask him for a picture without habaki?

Yes, you're right about that!

Someone spent some extra bucks on this one!

Wow, that is the same sword! $750 to $3,000 - quite a mark-up.

It is a nice one Tom! What is the inscription? Is it a dedication?

Yes, lacking any other info on this one I'm guessing its a company inspector stamp - "company" - of the koshirae maker.

In addition to the shinsa response, here's an additional reason we are seeing registered gunto coming our of Japan. It doen't expain them all, but likely accounts for a portion of them. Trystan found this page: "I found this article talking about the papered semi-forged(Nontraditional made) blade(Gunto),it's in Japanes . http://www.eiwado.co.jp/inquiry2.html 半鍛錬の軍刀でも親族の遺品等であった場合には特例の処置もあるようですので各都道府県教育委員会に問い合わせてみましょう。 Roughly transilated :If you have a semi-forged(Nontraditional made)sword it was once belong to family member who died in war, and then it will be treated specially ,please contact local Education Committee. So that might explain why some showa to got the registered. Some one says： 昭和26年至33年之間，以陣亡將士代表紀念品「遺骨代」為名目，申請登錄之各式軍刀不在少數。但昭和33年之後，便修法不再發給這類刀劍登錄許可了。 Between Showa 26-33 year1951-1958 , Many Gunto were registered as memento of the fallen soldiers (Subject "the remains of the bones". After Showa 33 year 1958, Goverment change the law, no longer issued the sword registeration license to these nontraditional made gunto ." Original post (#294) here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-10

Yes, that may explain why swords are coming OUT of Japan with registration, but guys still have difficulty bring swords INTO Japan. Great link Trystan, thanks!

Denis, Thanks for the new photo. I'm learning to be as specific as I can with my records, so can you verify I have the two right:

It looks like I haven't kept this thread up to date with the discussion on the Mysterious W Stamp thread, found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/19390-the-mysterious-w-stamp/page-3. Thomas has discovered a WWII document that seems to indicate the "W" is really inverted and is a double chevron, or yamagata, indicating a "midway/halfway" inspection. As the stamp is found on such varied items as blades, guns, and shovels, it does seem to point to the true meaning of the stamp on these blades. I hesitate to fully buy into it 100% as the vast majority of the blade stamps are in fact a W when the blade is held pointy-end up as you do when reading mei. There are a rare few upside-down W's as this one on Denis' blade, so I don't know. In support of the W being a yamagata, it would fit the scenario where Mantetsu was ordered to send 5,500 unfinished blades to the Tokyo Arsenal. The W does seem to be coming from blades put out in the Tokyo area. Speculating here - a Tokyo inspector receiving the unfinished blades could have stamped the "halfway" inspection mark on them, saying they were acceptable to go on to the the finishing stage by their arsenal workers.

Denis, Thanks for the new blade numbers! Both yours are definitely "Te" I don't have pics of Edward's, and have PM'd him to see if I can get them (I wasn't keeping good records back then!), so we'll see if his was Mi or Te. Could I please get the pics of the other side of the nakago of yours? And I'd REALLY like to get the pics of the Nan stamps, too. For clarity - does the picture with the fittings numbered 168 go with serial number 567? and the 20 with 337? As to the fittings, I honestly don't know if Mantetsu had fitters working right in the factory. The Mantetsu blades are found in SO many differing koshirae that I feel they were shipped out in bare-blade form to everyone who was ordering them, to arsenals, to outfitters, etc. But that is an area of the operation that is a great unknown (as far as I know). On a final note, your blade marked 168 (by the fitters) has the "W" stamp upside-down looking more like the yamagata, or chevron, we have been discussing. Most are "upright" and look like a W, like your other blade. That's still a mystery.

Thanks George! As is often the case, the anwer is "all the above" or "it depends"! Among the many post-war documents on this thread: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/57-nt-and-iao-list-and-sword-documents-by-us-gov-1945-1950/, there are letters mentioning the looting of shrines to take swords, along with legal confication, leaving receipts. Some were turned into police stations and never seen again (some were returned).

Small update on Toyokawa Arsenal blades with a second stamp: We now have 3 (thanks to Thomas!) blades made by "Inaba" with the same kanji stamped below the Toyokawa stamp. It is the first kanji of the name. Now we have a Toyokawa stamped blade with a "Ko" below the anchor stamp. Unfortunately, the blade is mumei. If anyone finds more like this, I'd like to see them, thanks!

Is it laquered wood or metal?

Fuller said both of these are seen on bayonettes and sword fittings but not seen on nakago, and are of the Toyokawa Navy Arsenal. Thanks for the great examples. I'll fit them into the Stamps doc. I haven't found any thing that identifies the T.E.C. markings. May be pure coincidence, but seem interesting that something starting in "T" is on Toyokawa marked items.

Wow, a mon engraved on the nakago! (for sale by Luis, on the Sale/Trade forum: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29673-long-strong-aoi-mon-shinto-katana-with-gi-provenance-and-gi-made-koshirae/)

Thanks Dave, always wondered about that!

David, were there swords donated to shrines? I read a post-war document talking about shrine swords that were pilfered after the war, so I assumed that meant the blades were located in the shrine?

Dang! How does a guy respond to something like this? (Neil, you turd-bird!!! Love ya, dude!) I really appreciate your kind words. Beyond the fun and joy of this hobby, the second-best thing about what we are doing is getting to know, and working alongside great guys from, literally, around the globe. (I don't know, maybe that's the best thing about this!). I honestly do enjoy our time together. As to the work, it's just fun chasing down leads and trying to solve mysteries - and it's all about swords!!! Can't get much better than that! I will honestly say that most of what I do is gather together information already gained by the time and efforts of other great guys. Heck much of the info comes from every one of you who feeds me the next link or picture. I would name some names, but no doubt I would miss some who right deserve credit, so I'll just say THANKS! to everyone. You know who you are! Thanks to all for the encouragement and commaradship. Now get back to work! HA!

Ray, I'm thinking this might require a new tracking folder for "Made In ..." as there are a number of swords out there with inscriptions like that. There are "shrine swords" too, but that normally refers to Yasukuni and Minatogawa Shrine swords. Do you know if the Hachiman Shrine was making swords on a regular basis?

That price better go up. The tsuka alone is worth $200.

Thomas, thanks! That's actually another page than what I had read, but this one has more detail. The other one says the Seki Guild "adopted" the Sho when the Nagoya arsenal started using the Seki stamp, making it sound like the Guild invented the stamp. Your page shows the Showa stamp came to be used at the order of the Interior Ministry. Of course, it might have come at the request of the Seki Guild and simply made official by the Ministry. This would make both pages in agreement. This page dates the change to 1939. The english paragraphs don't completely tell the full story depicted in the Japanese ones, and the google translate is horrible, but I think it mentions the Showa stamp really didn't show up until 1940 in actual use, which fits what everyone else is saying. What I'd like to gather is dates on blades with Gifu and other regional stamps to see if they fall in sequence AFTER the Showa stamp was no longer being used.