Bruce Pennington

Found a similiar discussion from 2012: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/9526-showato-in-Japan/ Someone actually got a response for the team: It verifies what we've learned here, that they are papering for "historical" reasons. He lamented the fact that "Japan sleeps" while these precious items are being shipped out of country to collectors abroad.

Thanks Bryce! I offer the following as a "possible" solution: Fuller & Gregory have a kyugunto that he calls "army kyu-gunto for navy use". The kyu is obviously not faked, so there must be a reason and army sword is marked with a navy anchor. Whatever that reason is - is probably behind these gunto with anchors. We can specualate about shortages or other ideas, but I beleive, like I stated above, fakers copy real stuff. So what there WERE real ones. The fact that we don't know the WHY doesn't invalidate their existance. On a side note, the one on the saya is the same as the one in Dawson's book from a navy belt. Note the rope around them both. Interesting topic.

Found this on an old thread (pg 46). Thought I'd add it as is generates similar questions: Thread found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/6879-unusual-shingunto/

It's been a while since I posted the latest version of my Stamps document. Ver 1.8 has a few kakihan added, and the latest "Company" stamp found on a Type 95 drag. As Fuller's chart on hotstamps and kakihan are hand drawn, I thought I'd start collecting actual examples. I've got 6 already, but could use real examples of: Kanenari Ishihara Nyudo Kanetaka Kojima Katsumasa Nagamura Kiyonobu Nagamura Kiyonubo (with "fuji" kanji) Suetsugu Shigemitsu Fujiwara Yoshikane Kanesaki Itsuryushi Tohimitsu

Steve, looks like a standard, rusty Rinji/Type 3/Type 0/'44 model missing the ito.

Bryce, While that is possible, it doesn't explain them all. NCO Type 95's used almost exclusively metal sarute, yet the majority of them in circulation today show up without them. I've never heard anyone say why they go missing. Another possiblity is that when the Allies forced the Japanese to surrender their gunto, many would "deface" them to some degree - rank tassels were removed (maybe removing the sarute in the process?), family crests scratched off, guys turning in rifles often scratched off (or attempted to) the Imperial chrysanthimum stamp. Just an idea. My dad's Mantetsu still had the stump of the cloth sarute that was originally there, along with a tiny metal wedge that secured it in the barrel screw. So, it was easy to decide which kind to refit it with. If yours doesn't have any pieces inside, then it's really up to you to decide which kind you like. No right or wrong in that.

Thought I'd re-open this thread to add the 2 tachi mounted Mantetsu Stegel showed us recently. As these are quite rare, it would be nice to have a thread documenting them. and

Sterlin, Check out this thread on the Sharpening and Dulling of blades from Nick Komiya at Warrelics: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/sharpening-dulling-blades-were-taken-granted-675938/ I can't say for sure that your blade was dulled for this reason, but it is a possibility.

Neil! I just shake my head and laugh out of astonishment. Where do you get these things!?!?!

Stegel, fabulous examples! And I did not have that serial number on of that second one. Too bad you don't have it for that first one! Yeah, I don't know what to think about that purple ito. They DID have some purple wraps back then, but this one just looks too new. The last one with the South China railway is the second I've seen now, outside of Dawson's one, and it looks like they are all non-Mantetsu. Dawson stated that the SCR commissioned the blades, so they must have been made by other smiths.

Dan, That's unique! And I have not seen that before. Shamsy probably has, though you might PM him to check.

Anna, the Damascus steel is a dead giveaway. Plus the kanji are junk. There are a lot of these showing up lately. Amazingly, they were being produced right after the war to make a killing offf the vast numbers of G.i.s during the occupation.

Thanks Jean-Pierre, I also have that. I posted it on the Battle Damage thread as well: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23378-any-shin-gunto-with-battle-scars/page-2?hl=+battle%20+damage I’ve pent a few days scouring the web for these. About the only ones I won’t have is something newly posted somewhere.

That’s a beauty Dan! The Tokyo star should put the manufacture date at or after late ‘40, early ‘41. Stengel or Shamsy might be able to narrow that based on serial number.

Wow Trystan, completely new to me, and not on Dawson’s chart. Thanks for that one!

This may be a slow thread to start as these gunto are pretty rare, but I thought I'd toss it out there: Dawson lists 8 emblems but states he knows of only the first 3 found on gunto - Japanese Govt Railways, South China Railway Co, and the SMR. I'm posting the chart along with a SCR emblem found on fleabay 9 years ago (link is already dead). Anyone have real examples? (I know we have lots of the SMR emblem. I'm really looking for all the others)

Forgive my ignorance of the old styles, but is that ito style normal?

Good example Stegel! I've seen a few of these over the past couple of years with that same serial number, or range. I was thinking the faker was making multiple blades with the same number, but after reading your post, I see I might have just seen the same fake 2 or 3 times as it changed hands.

Wow, Scott, that came out perfectly! Looks original. Nice job!

The “Z” appears to simply be bare metal where the tsuka rubs, wearing off rust. The stamp is more likely to be where I’ve circled. The tsuba stamp is “Gifu” which was a province where Seki was located. While required by law, stamping wasn’t practiced 100% of the time, and while rare, the stamps were sometimes removed.

Logan, I checked the item description. He didn’t say it was found on a battlefield, he just said it was found with a metal detector. It was simply something brought back from the war and got dumped on the ground or discarded for some reason.

Tsuba looks legit, a bit corroded from being buried in dirt. The Russians invaded Manchuria and made it all the way to Korea, including taking Mukden, where there was an arsenal (thought to be making Mantetsu blades, or at least finishing them). So there were plenty of Japanese swords that were carried home by Russian soldiers. This tsuba was no doubt part of their war souvenirs brought home.

Thanks JP, I appreciate it! But it is one I have already.

Nick Komiya says it’s a cherry blossom. I can see it now, but it’s crafted in a way I’ve never seen.

This koiguchi is on a mumei gunto being discussed on Warrelics http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/katana-inscription-cloth-help-730056-2/#post1957514 Any ideas what this is on the koiguchi where the cherry blossom should be? The blade is nothing special, an unsigned WWII factory blade, and fittings normal except for this and an extra thin tsuba. Ideas?