Bruce Pennington

Updated Yamagami brothers chart Matsu 1941, July Munetoshi 106 (RS ana) Trotter Survey 1941, Sep Akihisa 249 Type 98 Trotter Survey 1941, Sep Munetoshi 308 Type 98 Trotter Collection 1941, Dec Akihisa 566 RS Model Windy NMB 1941, Dec Akihisa 577 RS Trotter Survey ? Akihisa 松 61 RS Trotter Survey ? Akihisa 松 97 NMB 1942, Feb Akihisa 松 542 RS star Trotter Survey 1942, Apr Munetoshi 松 11 RS Trotter Survey 1942, Nov Munetoshi 松 422 ? star Trotter Survey 1942, Nov Munetoshi 松 433 RS star Trotter Survey 1942, Oct Munetoshi 松 451 RS Davidequis NMB 1943, Jan Munetoshi 松 508 Type 98 star Trotter Survey 1943, Mar Akihisa 松 618 RS star Schmucker Collection 1943, Mar Akihisa 松 819 RS star Trotter Survey 1943, May Munetoshi 松 1080 RS star Trotter Collection 1943, May Munetoshi 松 1082 RS star baldi1942 NMB 1943, Oct Akihisa 松 1377 RS star Trotter Survey 1943, Nov Munetoshi 松 443 RS star ? NMB 1944, Feb Kunishiro オ 154, star Trotter Survey 1944, Mar Munetoshi タ2353 Type 98 star Trotter Survey 1942-1945 (ND) Masakazu フ 37 RS star IJASWORDS

Update The sample is small, but this is what I have so far. Stamped numbers appear to have begun in Dec 1941, both for the Yamagami brothers as well as all the rest, and ran through at least 1944 (no examples of numbered '45 blades). The vast majority of the smiths are known RJT smiths, including the Yamagami Brothers. But the Mantetsu blades push the issue away from the Army RJT program, toward the idea that a particular koshirae shop was doing it. As we all know, only a very small number of Mantetsu blades have these stamps, and I imagine the same can be said for the listed smiths. Except for kao (kokuin), things stamped at the end of nakago seem to be NOT part of the mei, nor tied to the blades' smith, but rather from another agency (Discussing this idea on this thread). The Yamagami brothers' stamped numbers are unique with the Matsu stamp preceding the number. But even their numbers changed from the Matsu to katakana characters オ and フ in 1944, but we see the same kanji on the Kunishiro and Masakazu blades too, which points us back to an Army, or RJT, numbering system!!! One proposal put forth concerning the Matsu stamp, is that it indicates that the official charcoal, dictated for nihonto by the RJT program, was being used, but after reviewing this list, it makes me wonder why the mark wasn't used on other RJT smith's too, if that were the explanation. Open to thoughts, insights, ideas! 1941, Dec Tomomaru (RJT) 535 tsuba 1942, Apr Masakazu (RJT) 1129 tsuba/seppa “Ni”1129 1942, May Riyuu (RJT) 1301 RS mounts 1942, Sep Morinobu (RJT) 95 Star; tsuba/seppa 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 138 W 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 184 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 234 W 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 278 W 1943 Mantetsu Nan 63 1943 Mantetsu Nan 168 M 1943, Feb Munimitsu 315 Star; RS mounts 1943, Apr Akitaka (RJT) 1098 1943 Munetaka 490 1944, Feb Kunishiro (RJT) オ154 Star 1944, Jul Tomonari 24 on mune Star 1944, Oct Masaharu 6 on mune Star; RS mounts ND Masakazu (RJT) フ37 Star ND Mumei 102 Stainless; seppa ND Hiratoshi 456 Stainless; Toyokawa ND Zoheito 354 (Kanji) 98 mount

With George's suggestion that it's a polisher's stamp, I'm starting to wonder if all the similar unidentified odd-ball stamps at the end of the nakago are in the same boat. The marks at the nakago jiri, seems to me, to be from someone else other than the smith. "M", fitting numbers, etc, appear here and are not part of the mei. So, it would be logical to think of these as polishers' marks or maybe a fitting shop emblem.

The finish is considered an upgrade. Someone paid extra money for that. The higher-quality seppa support the idea of a high-class gunto. I don't own any metal saya covered with leather, so others will chime it, but your looks to be pretty immaculate, protected by the leather.

Nice one! (wow, they want $2,000 USD for koshirae!!!)

Got it, thanks Thomas!

Thanks John, that's a new one! Added to the list now. Thanks to everyone for keeping me in mind when you come across these!

George, quite an interesting idea - a polisher's mark! I've seen polishers with a kao, so why not a stamp?! Thanks for doing some digging on this! Sorry to say it was one of the early stamps posted on the Arsenal Stamps thread back in 2010 by GregD, on Page 2. I just sent him a PM, but he hasn't been active for a year and a half.

That seems to be what my saya is finished with then. It's actually a replacement saya with no number.

I think you nailed it! 西 Might be a regional mark. Not sure if if would make sense as a personal hot stamp.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste! Sorry if I've posted this one before, but I don't remember asking for help on this one yet. The stamp was poorly struck, so there's some strokes missing. Any idea of the meaning? Thanks!

Couldn't find a family name tied to this, but it seems to be a variation of the Oxalis plant theme. Found on a kaigunto HERE

Neil, That is the most completely colored one I've seen before. I seem to have missed that discussion in F & G! I tried to find our earlier discussion about the gold coloring of the copper-handled sayas, with no luck. I wonder if this is different than the faint gold that seems to be on many of the copper-handled 95 saya? Here's mine. Also, this re-opens my questions, years ago, about gold-painted saya. I know you said this is gilding, not paint, but maybe some of the others that are painted are simply trying to emulate this style finish?

Another kaigunto with mon. Found HERE.

Quite beautiful, Alexander. Clearly custom fittings. Do you know the significance of the hot stamp at the end of the nakago? Do you know who the smith might have been?

David, It's an interesting proposal. You'll notice all the Matsu stamps are from the beginning of the RJT program, 1942, through 1943. So far, we have no Matsu in 1944 or 45. But we do have katakana. So, you're idea would work if the industry supply of matsu-zumi was out or severely limited by that time. The katakana could indicate a different charcoal was used. The purists of IJA regulations regarding RJT ops, might balk at the idea. All three blades we have with katakana are also star stamped. However, we have already seen that mil-specs on sword fittings, even sword quality was allowed to drastically veer from the regs at the end of the war, so I wouldn't rule the idea out of a blade rating a star even if non-regulation charcoal was used in 1944/1945.

You might ask him if he would let you work with him personally, not publicly. I have been pestering him and Steve (Shamsy) to publish a book on their experience with the Type 95, so maybe he doesn't want to go public with his data yet. But I have personally found that having more people working on a study, brings more data and breakthroughs that weren't available to me working alone. So, I'd approach it that way to see if the two of you, together, could enhance his knowledge-base.

A verrrrrryyyyy loonnnnnnggg and ornate one, image provided by Dirk O ONE THIS THREAD.

When I started my stamp survey, I found out that Fuller and Cox had both very large surveys done before me. I stayed with it, and it has still proven useful to me. The graph that I made up shows a visible flow over time of the stamps that was not available in their surveys. Plus I discovered something new, due to current internet sales.

If you look at the top, under "Japan News" you'll see a Home button. Click that and you'll find all sorts of interesting forums, here at NMB. One of them is "Nihonto" where the traditionally made blades are most often discussed. Military gunto had a variety of blades in them, from ancestral, real Samurai, to "modern" nihonto, through the gamut of factory blades. I'm posting a list of 9 ways Fuller categorized the military blades. Some of the fun of hunting WWII gunto, is hoping to find a gorgeous, old, nihonto that had been re-fitted for the war. I decided to collect a fair representative of each of the branches (army, navy) and officer/NCO, plus a few of the pre-WWII gunto. My favorite are the Mantetsu blades.

Welcome Hale! Nice start on a long-term hobby. Have you discovered the Ohmura pages? http://ohmura-study.net/957.html Also worth you money to pick up the Dawson Book and the Fuller & Gregory Book. They are foundational reference books on all the Japanese war swords since the modernization.

Dark pictures, but correct me if I’m wrong, but no screwdriver slot in the head? And no threads at the end of the bolt? I will edit this later if I find out differently, but I’m pretty sure those bolts and nuts were brass. Not Steel. So this still points toward post war work.

If the blade was made by a type 95 process, there would not be much to bring out with a polish. The zoheito (factory blades) were hardened but had no hamon (fancy temper line). if it were mine, I would hang onto it and not discard it. We have come across strange things over the past few years that we thought were postwar Bubba jobs, and learned later that they were legitimate or time work. I have learned that the hard way with one of my Swords!

I don't think any of the parts of this gunto are reproductions, all legit Japanese sword stuff. The only question is WHEN were the things done to this that were done. I wish we had more clear pics of that tsuka bolt. From the fuzzy seller picture, it seems to me to be the original Type 95 bolt, with the nut-end bludgeoned flat, and the patina looks quite old. Yet, the sanding or grinding of the area where the nakago was modified seems quite new. So, all real Japanese sword parts, but a mystery as to whether someone modified this blade for an NCO during the war, or someone post-war did this work. I don't know, metallurgically, why a blade doesn't rust, yet the nakago does - NEIL???? - could the affects of welding on a nakago create the conditions in the steel to keep the area free of rust? Another issue remaining is the off-set machi. I am aware of examples of officer gunto with what appears to be a blade made by a Type 95 producer, sometimes with bo-hi, sometimes not, and no serial numbers. It was obviously made for the officer, due to sword shortages, by a 95 maker. The blade on this could be explained that way. It still leaves the question as to "when" the old nakago was attached, and why. In the threads about the sword repair teams, it was told that the majority of sword damage brought to the team was tsuka damage. To me, this leaves open the possibility that this gunto was damaged and a repair team slapped on another nakago & tsuka. But like Occam's Razor, the simplest answer may be the correct one - post-war piece-together!

There's another blade being discussed HERE that has multiple lines like this, same cross-the-blade direction. There must be a metallurgical explanation for these.