Bruce Pennington

Elements of truth to that in all the reference books. I like Ohmura's site for it's unmatched display o fcolor photos of high quality fittings and it's variety of colors and designs.

Not a great work of art, but art all the same (and certainly WAY better than anything I could do!!!). Found by Thomas @Kiipu at Warrelics Here. Bob Coleman didn't believe it represented real Japanese work or art. He didn't say why, and he's no longer with us, or I'd ask. Anyone see what he was seeing, or not seeing, that made it seem Chinese to him?

Thomas found another here: Warrelics

You can read, for free, dozens of high quality pages about gunto at Ohmura's site: http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

I would do almost anything for a nice toffee apple! But in spite of Steve's faith, I cannot recall or find the discussion either. @cabowen mentioned that he's seen a '42, but he didn't post pictures in the thread I found. I'm fairly sure someone posted a '41, but I can't find it. The search function, in spite my checking "All of my search words", keeps giving me 317 pages that contain "type" not just "type 3" or "type 44". There are a couple of NMB guys with "Type 3 collector" in their by-lines. Hopefully someone will help out George.

The translation guys will help with that first one. But the second one is likely a Chinese fake. It COULD be one of the island-made swords of the war. Will need more pics of the whole sword and fittings to say more.

I missed that point. A shame. Seems stupid, too. Japanese reading Japanese inscriptions on the nakago would see the 1985 date. I guess they're counting on non-Japanese buyers to get sucked in.

Dave, Here's another one! The whole gunto is black and it looks original, or at least period: https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/ken-jasper-international-militaria-forums/Japanese-militaria-forum/12244933-1943-Japanese-sword-please-take-a-look

Bingo! Good catch on the date. Who ever did this rebuild did a pretty decent job from mixed parts.

Added by who though? I would be really surprised if these could be peeled off, postwar, and applied somewhere else.

I did a survey at NMB and found 7 gunto with the blue sticker and 5 with the silver. None of the blue ones had dated blades, but they range in obvious fittings from high-quality kaigunto to low-end late-war army. A couple of the silver ones were on 1942 blades (one undated but with large Seki stamp; other dated Feb 1942). The rest were mumei or blades unknown. One was even found stuck right onto the outside of the leather saya cover. One had an old family blade in it. But 1942 is the earliest date found, which coincides with the Army takeover of the Seki logo. Maybe this was their initial response to losing the logo before adopting the Gifu? The one with the old blade makes me think the sticker was more of a "Final total package" approval, or even a koshirae inspection approval.

While I recognize the talent an art of more complex pieces, for some reason I really like these: found Here.

More

Posting for future

The tsuba/seppa are made for a leather cover. No chuso. Wonder what became of that?

Thanks Dave. I've never heard or read, from the smith's perspective, why they would date some blades and not others. For the WWII blades, it is evident from the surveys that when the Army took control over blade production, 1942, a much higher percentage of them were dated.

Can you post pictures of the nakago (tang). It's the only way to check out the mei. Here is a pic of his mei if you want to compare: I don't know why sellers keep claiming his blades are Mantetsu. His blades often have the "W" stamp, as is seen on 5 other smiths as well as on several Mantetsu, but that is the only connection. But it's not a connection to SMR Mantetsu.

Dang I do have one other Tomonari recorded, in RS fittings, but not as nice as this!

Yes, thanks Neil. The labels are turning out to be more varied in their use than I first thought. Some are on gunto with Seki-made blades, but some, like yours, have something else entirely in them, and maybe the label is more for "finished gunto product" type of meaning. Some are on 1942 gunto, and some are on late war gunto like @Shamsy posted. So, my original idea that they were used in the last couple of years to replace blade stamping is out the window too.

Neil, Any chance of finding out if there is a dated blade in this? Or does it have the large Seki stamp on the blade?

Dave, Safe to assume no date on this Naotane?

Mark, I don't see any mention of a date on your blade, is there one on the other side?

ANOTHER update! In discussing the foil labels: I realized the organization - Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Society - is the same organization mentioned in the Seki City website that was doing the showato testing and stamping! When and why they moved to foil labels rather than nakago stamps is unknown. I'm going to try to backtrack on these gunto to see if the blades were dated. If anyone reading this owns one like this, please post your nakago, especially if it's dated.

Another update on the background history: Nick's found an Police letter which addresses the concerns about gimei (mentioned by Keven Jones, Ryujin Swords) and poor quality showato (Seki City website) You can read his post (#36) HERE. Here is his post: Nihon-to 911 I earlier mentioned that Ohmura-san’s theory about the Ministry of the Interior imposing stamping on swords made by non-traditional methods was unfounded, as no such law was ever published in the government gazette. However, it is true that the Ministry of the Interior, responsible for policing was greatly concerned about the fraudulent manner in which “Showa-to” was being sold right after the China Incident of 1937. The following Police memo is from a police file containing all gun, sword and explosive control documents for the year 1938 and earlier. The APB memo is dated 1st October 1937, the entirety of which I translated below. It instructs prefectural police to crack down on certain fraudulent sales activities regarding Nihon-to, while they contemplate a more fundamental solution to the frauds occurring in the market. However, no further police documents got issued on this topic up to the end of 1938, which indicates to me that the fraudulent claims made to sell “Showa-to” ceased to be a police concern between October 1937 and December 1938. It is very likely that the police was agreeable to voluntary initiatives proposed by the cutlery industry to impose quality tests upon itself and stamp products with its seal of approval. It is also interesting to see that the police regarded the word “Showa-to” as a deceptive marketing gimmick in those days, equally misleading as the ridiculous term “Super Nihon-to”. I should also add that this was also accompanied by the leaflet I showed here calling for sword donations. Regarding policing of the sale of Japanese swords and encouraging citizen sword donations 1st Oct. 1937 Letter from the Chief of Police & Security Bureau of the Ministry of the Interior to the Police Chiefs of Prefectures. As the demand for Nihon-to has surged since the outbreak of the China Incident, recently, sales of swords claiming to be “Showa-to 昭和刀” or “Super Nihonto 超日本刀” have increased, promoting them as if they were comparable in quality to traditional Nihon-to. However, some such products are said to be of dubious quality, made of material totally different from traditional Nihon-to, out of such inferior material as stainless steel or western steel, which can easily bend or break only after being used a couple of times or poor in sharpness. These swords, despite such defects are being promoted and advertised in a way that mislead buyers into believing them to be equals of traditional Nihon-to, and at exorbitant prices. Such practices are harmful to social order and, in consideration of the fact that such defective products may end up in the hands of our soldiers called to the battlefield as a result of the Incident, they may even lead to casualties that become immeasurable military setbacks. Thus we are currently contemplating fundamental approaches to rectify this problem. In the meanwhile, we expect you to enforce order by focusing on the following three points, to prevent consumers from being deceived of the true nature and value of the products offered them. Additionally, as a means to offset the shortage of Nihon-to supply caused by this Incident and as a preemptive measure against the forgoing fraudulent sales practices, please call upon sword owners to encourage them to donate their swords to the military in the same manner as the 16th August memo regarding the transfer of pistols and live ammunition thereof. Lastly, please be aware that these points have already been discussed and agreed with the Army and Navy Ministries. 1. Crack down on those that engage in deceptive practices that misrepresent the true worth of the items being sold through exaggerated claims in promotions and advertising. 2. Crack down on those that apply Gimei to swords or provide false appraisals. 3. Inhibit attempted sales of swords at unjustifiably exorbitant prices . Police Letter.docx

Great, thanks! I'll pass that on.