Bruce Pennington

Hale, The numbers on fittings, like John said, are put there by the fitting shops to keep all the parts together for a particular blade. Each blade has different curves and thicknesses, so the fittings are customized, filed to fit nakago, etc, for a particular blade. The numbers keep those parts together when not on the blade, like for polishing. If you have all matching numbers, it simply tells you all the parts were original from it's making. But many gunto have parts without numbers at all, or have a mix of numbered and unnumbered parts.

That's a new one too! Any more pictures of that one? It should be Spring 41, but it's always good to have a full set of pics.

That's great Trystan! I had two of these, but not the rest. And that's our first recorded "KO" number!

That's a fabulous find, Thomas! I don't have my reference books at the time, but this seems to be 2 years after the introduction of the Kyu-gunto and the Type 32s? Weren't they in the 1886 time frame?

You can see date characters under the rust. It was all there but covered up by rust.

These run around $450 USD

Interesting! "H 222 マ" Quite elaborate for a fitters number.

Yes, I keep forgetting about the other sources. I remember Shamsy showed us some Polish very good replicas.

By the quality of the stamps, I'd say pretty recent. The older ones have really bad stamps. There have been some posts recently of one of the Chinese factories that are cranking these out, and they are improving, sadly.

For example, this is what an Iijima, Kokura, blade tip looks like:

Wow, Trystan, the stamps are very good! It if weren't for the bad blade issues, I'd have fallen for this one. MIchael, the bohi (fuller groove) is wrong, the blade tip is very close, but wrong. The numbering looks wrong. Certain fine points about the scabbard throat and handle

Thanks Adam! Strange the seppa/tsuba numbers "2 2 2 2" not matching the serial number or a painted number. Maybe simply used to keep all the fittings together.

Thanks again, Trystan. I somehow missed the Wa 6 when I transcribed the Komiya chart, and I had the pics of 134 in my files, but had never entered it in the Word document chart. Now both are logged.

Thomas, I don't have records of the 6 or 134. Do you a source or photos?

Yes, that's the one. The link to the yakiba.com site doesn't work, though.

Thanks Trystan for the new addition! It is the second production waki I have record of and the first one is Autumn 1940 Wa 33! So like, Thomas said, this "line" of production seems to have some experimentation, or custom orders, in it! I don't have pics of the whole waki (33) but here is what I have:

Ah, yes, you got it! Here's one on a Type 98 tsuba

Sorry Thomas, I’m not sure what you are referring to?

Kyu with real fighting blades run $1,200 plus or minus. I've seen a few of these over the years, so not unheard-of, just not as common.

I don't know, George. And actually, now that I'm staring at them again, I remember that both #1 & 3 are the same stamp (different blades). Someone had earlier identified the symbol as the "flaming jewel." But significance unknown. But I've put them together for a better look.

Thanks Francois.

Updated Yamagami brothers chart Matsu 1941, July Munetoshi 106 (RS ana) Trotter Survey 1941, Sep Akihisa 249 Type 98 Trotter Survey 1941, Sep Munetoshi 308 Type 98 Trotter Collection 1941, Dec Akihisa 566 RS Model Windy NMB 1941, Dec Akihisa 577 RS Trotter Survey ? Akihisa 松 61 RS Trotter Survey ? Akihisa 松 97 NMB 1942, Feb Akihisa 松 542 RS star Trotter Survey 1942, Apr Munetoshi 松 11 RS Trotter Survey 1942, Nov Munetoshi 松 422 ? star Trotter Survey 1942, Nov Munetoshi 松 433 RS star Trotter Survey 1942, Oct Munetoshi 松 451 RS Davidequis NMB 1943, Jan Munetoshi 松 508 Type 98 star Trotter Survey 1943, Mar Akihisa 松 618 RS star Schmucker Collection 1943, Mar Akihisa 松 819 RS star Trotter Survey 1943, May Munetoshi 松 1080 RS star Trotter Collection 1943, May Munetoshi 松 1082 RS star baldi1942 NMB 1943, Oct Akihisa 松 1377 RS star Trotter Survey 1943, Nov Munetoshi 松 443 RS star ? NMB 1944, Feb Kunishiro オ 154, star Trotter Survey 1944, Mar Munetoshi タ2353 Type 98 star Trotter Survey 1942-1945 (ND) Masakazu フ 37 RS star IJASWORDS

Update The sample is small, but this is what I have so far. Stamped numbers appear to have begun in Dec 1941, both for the Yamagami brothers as well as all the rest, and ran through at least 1944 (no examples of numbered '45 blades). The vast majority of the smiths are known RJT smiths, including the Yamagami Brothers. But the Mantetsu blades push the issue away from the Army RJT program, toward the idea that a particular koshirae shop was doing it. As we all know, only a very small number of Mantetsu blades have these stamps, and I imagine the same can be said for the listed smiths. Except for kao (kokuin), things stamped at the end of nakago seem to be NOT part of the mei, nor tied to the blades' smith, but rather from another agency (Discussing this idea on this thread). The Yamagami brothers' stamped numbers are unique with the Matsu stamp preceding the number. But even their numbers changed from the Matsu to katakana characters オ and フ in 1944, but we see the same kanji on the Kunishiro and Masakazu blades too, which points us back to an Army, or RJT, numbering system!!! One proposal put forth concerning the Matsu stamp, is that it indicates that the official charcoal, dictated for nihonto by the RJT program, was being used, but after reviewing this list, it makes me wonder why the mark wasn't used on other RJT smith's too, if that were the explanation. Open to thoughts, insights, ideas! 1941, Dec Tomomaru (RJT) 535 tsuba 1942, Apr Masakazu (RJT) 1129 tsuba/seppa “Ni”1129 1942, May Riyuu (RJT) 1301 RS mounts 1942, Sep Morinobu (RJT) 95 Star; tsuba/seppa 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 138 W 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 184 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 234 W 1942 Mantetsu Koa Isshin 278 W 1943 Mantetsu Nan 63 1943 Mantetsu Nan 168 M 1943, Feb Munimitsu 315 Star; RS mounts 1943, Apr Akitaka (RJT) 1098 1943 Munetaka 490 1944, Feb Kunishiro (RJT) オ154 Star 1944, Jul Tomonari 24 on mune Star 1944, Oct Masaharu 6 on mune Star; RS mounts ND Masakazu (RJT) フ37 Star ND Mumei 102 Stainless; seppa ND Hiratoshi 456 Stainless; Toyokawa ND Zoheito 354 (Kanji) 98 mount

With George's suggestion that it's a polisher's stamp, I'm starting to wonder if all the similar unidentified odd-ball stamps at the end of the nakago are in the same boat. The marks at the nakago jiri, seems to me, to be from someone else other than the smith. "M", fitting numbers, etc, appear here and are not part of the mei. So, it would be logical to think of these as polishers' marks or maybe a fitting shop emblem.

The finish is considered an upgrade. Someone paid extra money for that. The higher-quality seppa support the idea of a high-class gunto. I don't own any metal saya covered with leather, so others will chime it, but your looks to be pretty immaculate, protected by the leather.