Bruce Pennington

Bingo! Good eye, Stephen! 99% that would be a Showa stamp. So the blade was made during World War II.

I’m sorry Shawn, I am a bit overwhelmed at home, taking care of two households, and may have rushed my search and maybe didn’t understand fully the point you were making. Also, I always have to relearn the language when guys are talking about which side the sword is named on. It will be a while before I can look into this again, maybe Thomas, or Trystan can enter this for you. @Kiipu @BANGBANGSAN

Thanks for posting a photo of them side-by-side! Pretty impressive the differences when seen together. You don’t get any real concept of size and dimensions when someone is posting photos of a fake by itself.

If I thought I was looking at a WWII blade, I'd consider the possibility it is a really poorly struck Showa stamp. Better pics, or even a powder dusting might help. But I don't see any Tsunatoshi, in any of the sources I have access to, in WWII. So, considering the damage at the nakago jiri, my thinking is the marks at the top were done at the same time as the stuff at the bottom.

Shawn, I checked a sample in each of the years and they are all on the same side as this.

I'm away from my books. Have you researched to see what type dirk this is? I want to say Forestry or Railway Board. I know we have a dirk collector here at NMB, maybe we can get them to comment. I know there is a guy with a lot of info on dirks at Warrelics, but it seems to be down right now for maintenance or something.

You guys are like a bunch of hens in a chicken coop. One hen gets a red sore spot and the other hens can’t stop themselves from pecking at it. I hate to say it, but the guys at Warrelics and Wehrmacht-awards treat each other more respectfully than you do here. We need a little more “Live and let live”, “To each his own”. And that goes for both sides.

Dang! Conway got it! I saw those faint strokes below the Mitsu earlier, but then dismissed them. I think it is 'nobu' and the seller didn't powder it like the other 2 kanji.

Yes, this is for sale by seller 'dinge79' on ebay for $1,337. So something fishy is going on. Japanese WW2 Koa Isshin Mantetsu Sword | eBay

Thanks Stephen! I have that one on file from seller 'Smallsword' back in Oct '23. Can't recall if 'jewelry&coin' is Smallsword, but I think he changed his ebay name.

Thanks guys, that helps! I've annotated the files.

I thought about that too! But I don’t know of any World War II smiths that had a name starting with that kanji. on the other hand, we do have a known RJT Smith, by the name of kikumitsu. I think I will file this one that way.

Pierced tsuba are found on both models. As to the sellers claim, you just can’t go by that. I’ve seen countless titles for souvenir sales, claiming “immaculate navy kaigunto”, and “World War II army sword with ancestral blade”, when the blade is dated 1943!

@Michael 67 @Bryce These two blades seem to have the same mei, made by the same guy? Am I correct in this? if so, I am puzzled by one, having a Kiku and the other having a Kiku Ichi.

Here's a nice one John, with all the pins. For sale HERE.

Here's an odd one. #39, crudely broken off nakago jiri, black "navy" same', in Type 98 fittings, and likely a post war ito wrap. I personally think the whole set of fittings is likey done post war. Matt is selling his HERE.

I have a couple Kikumitsu on file, but this one seems a bit different. Is it something else?

Right. According to Richard Fuller "Swordsmiths came under the control of the Army Blade Department around late 1941 or early 1942." Prior to this the only stamps we see on blades were the Showa and large Seki. After the Army took over, the stamping was mostly moved to the arsenals, so we see Na, small Seki (also a Nagoya stamp), Saka, Ko, Yama, Nan, To, Matsu, and a variety of prefecture stamps appear. The Na stamp is seen from 1941-1944, with the massive majority of them in 1943.

Yes. Although, Thomas & Trystan thought the kanji strokes were slightly different enough to raise question. However, we are starting to think the mark is for the Inaba Forge, like the "Ka" on other blades may be for Kamakura - so location stamps. We talked of these in several posts, but here's the one where we have summarized the 4 we have on Toyokawa blades:

Good eye, Mal, thanks!

Yes it is, John, thanks for the link! And you're probably right on that price. Before COVID you couldn't tough a kaigunto for less than $2,400. Now, they seem to be going for less than $2,000. The seller is way high for today's market.

That's a steal of a price for the Dawson book, Steve! I'd jump on that. I agree with John, Russ. Plimpton's book is bigger and has some examples of swords not seen in any other reference, so useful for that. But it shows no blades at all, and like John said, the history discussions in Dawson are more in-depth than in Plimpton. I'm glad I have both, but if I had to choose 1 I'd go with Dawson first.

Thanks Max. The sword is a Type 98 Japanese officer sword. You can read about them here: Military Swords of Imperial Japan (Guntō) (ohmura-study.net) The all brown tassel is a discussion all of it's own. Both Dawson and Fuller listed them as "late war" army tassels, but more recently, an August 1940 WWII uniform regulation change was found specifying the all brown tassel to be used by the Gunzoku - the civil branch of the military. Previously, Gunzoku used standard officer tassels, but the uniform reg change specified they use the brown tassel to reduce confusion. Gunzoku wore military uniforms that, at a casual glance, could be mistaken for active duty officers. I believe it was their rank patches (working from memory here, so could be wrong) that were specific to Gunzoku, so the added tassel would help separate them. You can read about this on Nick Komiya's thread Regulation for Civilian Employees carrying Swords. The earliest year observed, so far, for the all brown tassel is August 1940, and I have 2 on 1942 gunto, so this appears to support Nick's claim the tassel was made for Gunzoku, as opposed to an already established "late war" tassel for active army officers simply being reassigned to Gunzoku. Besides, August 1940 isn't really all that "late" for WWII.

Thanks Peter! I'm going to file this in the Naotane files, with a note that it may be gimei. Brian doesn't believe it's legit, and the brown color on the nakago looks like a liquid coating was applied, maybe to fake age/patina? Yet, if faked, the fakers knew of Naotane's practice of hot stamping city names. That's certainly possible as the Japanese fakers would have to know their smiths if they are going to be good at it. Yet it seems a tad bit more than you expect in modern gimei producers. So, I'll file this one with a caveat.

Bryce, any chance of a date on that blade?