ROKUJURO

Brian, you have erased a controversy in the discussion which may be good for a superficial look of harmony, but I think I understand the arguments of both sides. If we judge a piece of art on the basis of a rigid list of features and leave our educated feelings (SENSORIUM) aside then of course it facilitates the game of fakers. I feel that Ford wanted to encourage us to use our gut feelings (which is of course of little value if we are not trained on high quality objects of art) besides the 'technical' criteria which are important, too. One of the most renowned potters of the 20th century, KANJIRO KAWAI, was cited to reply to a question of a journalist on how to decide between good and bad ceramics. He answered: 'With your body.' I think this says it all. In the case of the TSUBA in question, it may be difficult to divide between true and false just by pictures, and while Pete expressed that the TSUBA might be a damaged but genuine one, Ford saw the possibilities of faking going above the level we are used to see, and I believe in his expertise. If we remember that fakes used to be made in former times basically with the same techniques as fine UTSUSHI pieces, then there is indeed no reason why it could not be done today. We are used to identify fakes by poor design and sloppy work, but what if someone with a technical and artistical background (and some machines to speed up the basic work) decided to make money with 'good' fakes? I think they are already at work today, but we shall see. Returning to the TSUBA in question, I could imagine an original TSUBA having been in a fire as mentioned. The necessary work of cleaning and 'restoring' removed some material as well as the patina, of course, which led to it's look today. The pleasing basic design is still there, but it is altered to an extent that it is difficult to relate it with certainty to a school or a maker. All in all, I find this dicussion very helpful and educating although it might not necessarily have led to a solution for the t.o.

Reuben, I would like to join in the calls for being careful because the description is not reliable. The seller writes: .... is mounted in the original mounting with a very old iron Tosho sword guard. This blade has an oversize Kissaki (very desirable),..... You should not believe in the 'original mounting'. You cannot be sure of that as long as the ages of the blade and the KOSHIRAE are not clear. The TSUBA is definitely not a TOSHO TSUBA, and the KISSAKI does not seem to be oversized (O-KISSAKI) as far as I can see from the tiny pictures.

Curtis, arrowheads of this type can be found in many stoneage cultures of the world, so very early Japan cannot be excluded. The material looks indeed like obsidian (a volcanic glass) and not so much like flint. A specialist for minerals and stones (petrologist) may be able to trace the material back to it's origin.

Gentlemen, to me the depicted animal is closer to a TANUKI than to a frog.

Brian, the thin-walled tube is perhaps not a big problem, but it should be conical, if I know it right. This one looks like recently home-made from a water-pipe. Maybe just a decoration piece for theater or western tourists.

Jean, a beautiful blade as you should expect from a JUYO! J'ai l'impression que les dimensions des KASANE (épaisseur) ne sont pas correcte.

Mark, that was probably not over paid! AKA SHINO is always nice to have, and although not by ARAKAWA TOYOZO, I submit my congratulations!

Bas, it is indeed KAZUNORI. The blade was made in October, 1943. As already mentioned, your pictures are upside down.

Bas, you could give it a try with the informations provided here on the NMB forums! But as the date is standing on the head you might have a problem reading it, so I will tell you that it says SHOWA seventeenth year (rest is missing). The MEI (signature) is NORI, but it is only half of the signature which seems to belong to a WWII blade. Try better photos directly from above, and then we may discuss again.

Ian, there is a lot to read about Japanese swords - a whole new world is waiting for you! Never think that something you cannot do could not be done! Japanese craftsmen are trained in their respective fields and they can do magic! The same applies to our specialists. I understand you exitement, but please NEVER display a 'naked' sword! As you read about the subject you will learn that blades are stacked away unless they are needed for special occasions. KOSHIRAE with blades were sometimes displayed at court, but in private homes they often had a TSUNAGI (wooden blade replacement to hold the KOSHIRAE together) inside. But take your time to enjoy and understand, stay with us at the NMB and learn a lot! It is a lifetime disease.....

Yes, this was a breaking test, not cutting! Interestingly, the blow was not executed with the MONOUCHI. Maybe it would have broken then. I have no doubt that the blade was damaged to an extent. I don't quite understand this kind of test.

Ian, to preserve the function of the wooden liners (as of any wooden SAYA) I do not recommend the use of linseed oil as this will probably be soaked into the wood, harden and seal it so that moisture cannot evaporate. This is why you should never leave excess oil on the blade when storing in a SAYA. My experience is that an old SAYA (or old liners) are difficult to clean unless they can be scraped inside to make a new surface. The cheapest functional way would still be new liners after the dent repair/removal, I think.

Ian, if it were my project, I wood proceed as follows: As I understand, it is a military metal SAYA with wooden liners. One could surely pull out the liners with the risk of destroying them if there is no other way. With a metall tool 'custom made' for this task, I would press out the dents in the SAYA. Then I would take some wood (if HINOKI is not available, some other acid-free wood like apple or cherry may be suitable) and make new liners. I know that many NMB members will not like my recommendation, but that is the way I would choose if a low budget does not allow for SHIRA SAYA which would of course be the best option!

Alex, it looks like a precious one! We did'nt see it before the treatment, but looks nice now!

Yes, that looks strange! Probably some famous Chinese 'screwdriver' MEI that remain a riddle even to the experts (SUMI MASEN, I am none of them)..... My impression is that the NAKAGO shape is also a little off.

Gentlemen, while 'rocket science' is based on new technologies and trials, a lot of mathematics and astronomical theory, modern developments and materials, the crafts of the Japanese swords are mainly based on practical experience with a simple technological background and very basic material. We admire a well-made SHIRA SAYA as work of art (which it deserves) because we cannot imagine how it was made so precisely yet gracefully. We are not used to work with carefully chosen wood that had been cared for lovingly for years before it could be turned into something useful. We are not trained in the use of very fine but nevertheless simple tools in a way that you could close your eyes and continue working with the remaining senses. A Japanese SAYASHI can probably 'see' with his fingertips in a way we could only achieve if we devoted our lives to just one small department of woodworking crafts. That is what they can and what they do. The difference between the Eastern way and our Western approach to the crafts is quite a gap as we have problems to limit our attention and concentration to a narrow field. Maybe we need more modesty or even humility (which Japanese people seem to have without even being aware of it) PLUS the skills PLUS the experience to attain the same level of craftsmanship. Understanding the function of an item in all aspects is based on long time learning, and tiny differences may cause big problems. Just think of TACHI no SAYA in comparison to KATANA no SAYA! In the end, intense learning about the arts of the Japanese sword will lead to a respectful admiration of the work of the many specialist craftsmen who had put their respective skills into a sword as a joint venture. This respect may also lead to refrain from any attempt to make a SAYA or related object. On the other hand any craft can be mastered to a certain level by anyone who is devoted and not impaired in one way or another. So some people may feel a certain curiosity or challenge to try their skills on their field of interest. If this is done with a well-based knowledge and responsibility, it not only should not harm but probably lead to a deeper understanding, respect, and admiration. Again, this should not be understood as an encouragement to start a SAYA production!

Brian, I understand perfectly what you mean, and I don't encourage people neither to experiment with these valuable artifacts. On the other hand the NMB can only inform and encourage collectors to find a good way of care and conservation. Unfortunately, you cannot prevent people from doing silly things with their swords. In nearly forty years of collecting I have seen and heard of so many incredible cruelties being committed against these arms (not WITH them!) that trying to make a SHIRA SAYA of one's own might be judged as a minor sin.

Brian, while I fully understand and support what you are expressing, I would like to mention that it is not in the NMB's responsibility if someone damages his blade(s) by wrong handling or treatment! Instead, I find it a good thing to discuss the properties of a professionally made SHIRA SAYA which in fact may prevent collectors with limited craftsman capacities from trying to make one. I absolutely admire the Japanese craftsmen for their capabilities but with all due respect: they only cook with water - as we say in Germany. So learning to understand their work may in some cases include to give it a personal, very careful try in the respective field. And when you know what you are doing the danger of damage is minimal. This applies in my understanding to SAYAMAKI and TSUKAMAKI as examples, but probably not to polishing. This is only my personal opinion as a trained craftsman.

Curtis, the MEI does not look like a chiselled one, it seems to be stamped. I have never seen such a stamp on a genuine blade, but I am not a specialist in this field. If you showed some photos of the blade, we might be able to tell if this is possibly a mass produced new China fake or a WWII blade. Silver TSUBA?? Does not sound good as well!

Curgan, there are some videos about SAYA MAKI to be seen on YouTube. If you show these to your woodworking friend he might be able to judge himself if he would be able to make SHIRA SAYA. But as Adam wrote, there is still the side of the materials used. You want to use resin-free, acid-free wood with even and fine grain. As HONOKI/Magnolia is not easy to find I have made SHIRA SAYA from apple-tree wood which seems to work fine. As a toolsmith, I forged my own tools (the chisels) for this purpose, copying Japanese original tools. I also used Japanese planes which are available in Europe. The main thing is to fully understand the purpose of a SHIRA SAYA: it is an almost airtight protection for your blade(s), which in itself should not harm the blade chemically or mechanically. Another side of the project is the shape which should be as close to the originals as possible. I wish you good success!

Ed, thank you for sharing photos of this unique piece of Japanese arms history! Very interesting! However, I would like to make a remark on the technique it was probably made with. To my knowledge there was no unfolded iron at that time except from some early production of cast iron in China. Iron was obtained in a process comparable to the TATARA, and the result was mainly sponge iron (the high carbon parts of which are TAMAHAGANE) which had to be homogenized before attempting a production of any kind. This was made by repeated folding and fire welding the material, and in some places your photos seem to show a layered construction. This may indeed be layers of corroded material, which could be a hint to the manufacturing process. Please have a close look. Probably you have scientifically researched about this magnificent TSUBA, so I would be interested to know how the production process was seen by the specialists.

Denis, I have waited a while to let the more knowledgeable members raise their voices but maybe the question is too simple. I will give it a try: The answer is no, as different characters have different meanings. KANJI were 'imported' from China, where the language is more differentiated in the pronunciation. The Chinese can hear the differences while the Japanese language does not allow this which sometimes leads to problems even in a dialogue between two Japanese. As far as I know there are 32 different versions of the KANJI 'Sho' and almost 20 for 'SHI' (I may be wrong in the numbers) which is a good base for problems. The German language may be good for some comparisons here: the writing of family names like Mayer, Maier, Meier, Meyer, Mayr or Major might be different, but the pronunciation is (almost) the same. For a foreigner this may seem strange, as in Germany you have to ask how to spell these names. The same applies to YOSHI in Japan. You have to ask: Which YOSHI, please? Hope this helps and is not too far from the truth.

Gentlemen, I plan on giving a violin concert some time soon, but until now I don't know how to play. Somebody out there who could give me a hint on how to build a violin?

I agree with you as far as the surface is concerned. Indeed, steel can have a grain on the molecular level, but metals do not have pores or interstitial spaces. If it were so, oxygen could penetrate deeply into metals and corrode them internally. But as you know, archeological finds of steel often are heavily corroded superficially (we had some nice examples lately here in the forums), but if cut open, the metal core is completely intact unless there are cavities caused by the working process or accident (cracking). This can happen by repeated folding and incomplete fire welding, but also by insufficiently refined basic steel which may contain remains of slag or scale (seen as FUKURE or WARE in a blade). What we see as HADA are tiny welding seams between layers of the steel, and they indeed represent an increased surface for oxygen attack which is why we regularly inspect and clean the blades. But if the smith made no mistakes, these small surface irregularities (if compared to a glossy polished surface like MIGAKI-JI) do not go deeply into the metal.

Ron, could you please explain what you mean by 'porous'? If you had raw TAMAHAGANE in mind I would not have asked, but ALL metal? Do you refer to the surface which could be ground, filed, hammered, or polished and be more or less easily attacked by corrosion?