paulb

Hi Grev The fact he is best known by his later name suggests either he was more polific in that period or his works were better. I think he comes from a very strong tradition and foundation so none of his work would be less than good. As with many artists who refine their style I think it likely his later work was better than his early pieces but as with much else the choice will be more subjective than otherwise.

looking at the spring catch on the nakago it looks as though this was made for or modified to go in to a walking cane. The vast majority of such blades are low quality and as Brian says this is reflected in their price.

I agree with John I have seen on several videos and referenced in several books that blades were heated after quenching (to a relatively low temperature, I think 200 deg. C was quoted) and then tempered. The stresses created by quenching are huge hence the failure rate of about 10%. the secondary tempering is aimed at relieving some of that stress. The heated copper block is as you say used to adjust the curve. regards Paul

No! However just because I am not content it doesn't mean a- I dont really appreciate what I have and am grateful to have it b- Because I see things I still lust after I can afford to buy them I think there is a danger that if you become content it is easy to slide in to being complacent and part of the drive to learn more and understand better falls away. So if I see really beautiful swords for sale in Japan or where ever I can enjoy them and appreciate them, I can be frustrated that I cant buy them but I think that frustraion is less now than it was 20 years ago.

Hi Darius congratulations! as a first sword I think you have done very well and far better than many of us did in the past. For what it is worth given the choice you had between this and a showa wakazashi and the information you were ble to share, I think you made the right decision, but then again I am a koto enthusiast so cant claim not to be biased. enjoy studying your new blade, from the images I think there is a lot to see. regards Paul

As jussi says which Kiyomitsu? there is a lot of difference between them. Not only Bizen and Kaga but within the Bizen Kiyomitsu signatories there is a huge range of quality. At their best they exhbit some incredible work but the name also appears on the mass produced "bundle swords" and at the stated date this is a late work. This is an impossible thing to do without description and images. It demonstrates in part the futility of trying to make a decision based on whether something is signed or has papers without seeing the sword or even a description of it. Sorry Darius I am not trying to be neagative but other than the generalistions you already have I believe it impossible to offer anything meaningful without at least some images.

James Thats what motivates a lot of people to keep looking. For many years some very reputable dealers made a living out of searching out such swords. As both Ray and Jean point out the key to their success was knowing what they were looking at and understanding when and when not something was worth taking a chance on. In every collecting field we hear stories of people, expert or otherwise getting lucky and finding a treasure out of the blue. its a dream that motivates most of us to some extent but one that is rarely realised (at least not by me )

Darius, Firstly which of the three you are looking at do you like the most? If you like them all equally, they are all of similar condition with no issues then your question comes down to which is commercially most desirable. As always there are numerous opinions but as a general rule: An unsigned koto blade is always more commercially acceptable than and unsigned shinto or later piece. Long swords are more desirable than wakazashi. Some of the finest and most highly regarded Koto blades are mumei (unsigned) and for many a hozon paper is sufficient and they dont need to obtain higher papers.So a Hozon paper can, in your terms, hold a lot of weight. Sorry for being boring and repeating myself but 1. Buy what you like 2. Dont be tied down by attempting to limit yourself to a period or type first and foremost like what you are buying. If you like the showa wakazashi best buy it, 3. Generally speaking a koto blade in good condition (and the key point is good condition) will always be commercially more desrirable than a later blade.

there was a calculation done some while ago that suggested there were still a number of national treasure blades that had been taken from Japan after the war as keepsakes which may be in attics or barns in the USA waiting to be found. There have also been occassional (very occassional) examples of blades being purchased cheaply on ebay which after polish and restoration papered highly to such as ichimonji. I believe these were unsigned and someone took a flyer and hit gold. For a signed work by a famous smith to appear anywhere at auction and go for a bargain price, particularly now that most auction houses use the internet to advertise and sell must be incredibly unlikely. If a signed work appears at auction and sells for a bargain price then the overwhelming liklihood is that it will be gimei. I also read that there will never be any meito found as to qualify as such the work needs to have continuous provenance confirming it's authenticity so if it is lost and re-appears it cannot be considered meito (or couldnt at the time the book was written) For the "hunter fraternity", I think there is always the thrill of the chase and eternal hope. The reality is that it has become increasingly difficult to find such hidden treasures and there is by far more fools gold out there than the real thing.

James I am not sure I fully understand your question so excuse me if I am going off on a tangent. Your mail focuses on the signature. Why? I have now been collecting for 33 years. I have gone through many iterations. I have reduced the number and improved the quality to the point where I now have a few swords that are of the best quality I can achieve. the majority date from the mid to late Kamakura. I believe them to be beautiful and in some cases representative of the best examples of the craft. None of them are signed. All of them were bought based on the quality of the workmanship (or my perception of that quality) and there is not one of them I would exchange for a signed work from a lesser smith. With great respect you are focussing on the wrong end. ignore the mei and look at the sword. Once you are happy with what the jigane and hamon are telling you look at the nakago and any mei to confirm what you have already seen in the workmanship. So to answer your original question my collection would look pretty much the same whether I could see the nakago or not. I would always prefer to see the tang and any mei but the decision as to whether I want buy it and add it to my collection is based on shape, jihada and hamon with nakago coming a long way down the list after these three attributes.

At the risk of repeating answers already posted when the question of reliability of early papers crops up can I confirm my understanding and perhaps others can add or comment if it is wrong: 1. Some (not all) papers issued in the late 70s by branch offices of the NBTHK were found to be questionable or just plain wrong. 2. Examples were mainly, but not exclusively Tokubetu Kicho and the rarer "Blue" papers (sorry I cant remember the correct term for those) 3. As far as I am aware no papers issued by the NBTHK head office in Tokyo were found to be wrong. 4. Obviously confidence in the system was shaken which is why the newer system was introduced in the 80s and people were invited to re-submit swords for re-appraisal if they had older papers from this period. So with this sword there are two questions - where was the paper produced? If in Tokyo it has a greater chance of being right, if somewhere else then it is less reliable - why wasn't it re-submitted when the offer to do so was there. I think it is very unfortunate but understandable that a few bad papers caused the whole system to be brought in to question. I would be confident that the vast majority of older papers are accurate, but confidence has been lost in the market and certainly few dealers or auction houses appear regard them as reliable. This means if you buy a sword with old papers you will either grab a possible bargain or something that isn't what it claims to be. As always whether it is worth buying depends on the final price, how much you like the sword and how important the mei is to you in making that decision.

All the ones I have seen have been suguha. The more I look the more I like the Satsuma idea. Most of the satsuma blades I have seen in hand have areas of ara-nie and I think there are patches in your blade. Also in the image of the kissaki there is what looks like a small line of dark steel looking a little like kinsuji or inazuma but darker. One characterisitc of satsuma blades is this potato vine line appearing in the hamon. If it is Satsuma I would start putting it later timewise.

Thanks Jacques Yes the use of the term late koto is misleading. That was my fault I tend to think that most good things ended at the end of the kamakura period so in my own mind regard nambokucho and after as "late" which of course it isnt. thank you for highlighting this and I will try and get my mind in gear and accept there is life after 1334! regards Paul

Hi Antti Yes I think so. I am doing this from memory but if I remember correctly he was working mid 1800s and unlike the original who never used kokaji, only Sanjo or Munechika, but never both and never with Kokaji the shin-shinto man used all three elements in various combinations. I think that sword has some real potential there looks to be a lot of actvity in both jihada and hamon.

not necessarily there was a smith working in the 1800s who used that mei

Hi Ben I am not sure if this will help or not but your sword reminds on one I currently have here. It is also a powerful wakazashi I have copieds my description below: Mei: Bitchu no Kuni ju nin Sadatsugu (signed tachi-mei) Hada combination of Itame and nagare, some darker patches (Jifu?) Hamon Suguha in nioi. Comment: This is a powerful wakazashi typical of the late koto period and exhibiting all the characteristics you would expect to see in a Sue Aoe blade. Hamon is almost exclusively nioi, the hada has a whiteness and combines a running itame with smaller rounded itame patches The workmanship looks to be sue Aoe which is in line with the mei and the shape. As Alex says these are powerful fighting swords, no great elegance but certainly imposing.

Hi Andy Take a look at the Yasurimei, they apear to be very unusual. Normally seen on either Yamato hosho work (this isnt) or some mino and Mino offshoot schools. My guess would be be mid 1600s or later Mino but there are many other possibilities. regards Paul

Sorry Alec But I think you are going to be dissappointed (or extremely lucky ) At that price range you will struggle to find what you describe. Take a look at the websites of sellers listed here and the for sale section and that will give you a much better idea of what you might expect to pay. regards Paul

Alec For your own sake I think you want to focus down a little. Age on it's own does not represent quality and the time scale you mention incorporates the very best and some of the extremely mediore (bundle swords mass produced work from Mino Bizen etc) To try and help more can you share why you are specifically looking for a sword in this condition and in koshirae? I am assumimg (hoping) you are not intending to use it in any martial art actvity, but such things have been known in the past. As Jean says give us an idea of the price range and what your preferences are and it is possible something might be lurking here that meets your needs good luck with the hunt Regards Paul

Hi James I think it has potential. It is hard to say in it's current polish but at first sight there are no major issues (not too sure about the kissaki, it looks reshaped) The "family blade" idea is a little over worked I think. there is no doubt that some people did take their family sword in to war. However others simply bought a traditional blade in preference to a factory produced one. This looks to be a traditionally made sword in gunto mounts. To judge the quality I honestly think you need to have someone see it in hand and spend some time with it. Also send some images to a reputable polisher and ask their opinion Hope this helps Paul

Hi Bazza Damn I always get the first and third the wrong way round. I'd like to use age as an excuse but I think it is just stupidity! I also am tending towards gimei but have not spent any time with books to compare Thanks for the correction cheers

Hi James As Ray said check out Roger's site there is a wealth of information on the Tadayoshi line. 3rd generation was arguably the best of the line and his work is exceptionally beautiful. This sword looks to be in ok condition and would most likely polish. Whether the mei is right or not I will leave to others. Although the nakago is in poor condition the yasurimei slanting slightly to the right are in line with the third generation but the mei looks to be less convincing. If it is right you may have just realised the dream of every Hizen collector. However you have some way to go before that can be confirmed good luck Paul

No problem James

Hi Murray I am in Northumberland just south of the wall. Not a member of the Northern Token but I am involved with the Token of GB. If you drop me a pm with your email address on it and give me an idea of whereabouts you are located I might be able to put you in touch with someone even nearer than I am. Looks an interesting sword.

. As Brian suggests, if one accepts these are hand made and using traditinal material, provided they are of acceptable quality there is no reason for them not to paper. I think there is a wealth of evidence saying that at least some Emura blades were traditionally made. I always feel a bit out of my depth talking about modern swords but one thing I dont understand is Tsuruta-sans comment about Emura being better than Nagamitsu. I havent seen many of either but of those I have seen the Nagamitsu always seemed to have a lot more going for them in terms of both hada and hamon activity. what are other peoples experience?